#Mortgage #Industry Insights: Navigating #Challenges and #Opportunities with Gavin Ekstrom (Part 1)

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Welcome to raising the flipping bar, the go to podcast for aspiring and seasoned real estate investors.

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I'm your host, Derek Marlin, and I'm the CEO of Elevation.

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We're a real estate investment company based right here in Denver, Colorado.

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We'll dive into smart investment strategies, market insights, and essential tips for scaling your real estate ventures.

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Whether you're making your first investment or your hundredth investment, this podcast is your blueprint for success in the ever evolving world of real estate investing.

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Get ready to elevate your real estate game and begin your journey with me.

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Everybody welcome back to another episode of raising the flipping bar.

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I'm your host, Derek Marlin, and I'm really excited.

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We have a fantastic guest here.

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We've got the number one, independent lender, number one in Denver, a great content creator and overall rockstar.

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Gavin, welcome to the podcast.

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Hey, thanks for letting me be here and super excited to spend some time with you today.

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I know we've crossed paths quite a bit and we're always running in a million different, different directions, but now we're here.

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Yeah.

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Love it.

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for coming.

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I always kind of start off our podcast.

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I like to do it a little bit differently and I forgot why I heard this, but it kind of, I think, help give people a little bit of insight into who you are as a person.

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So give me something either fun fact, crazy facts, something super different where even if people would know you're there, like I had no idea with that about Gavin.

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So give me some sort of crazy fun fact about you.

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after 30 years in the industry, I think a fun fact about me when you say that, and the first thing that comes to mind is, I'm, you know, everyone's passionate about what they do.

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I just think I live and breathe and do this all the time.

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I, I truthfully am an addict, and here's what I mean by that.

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If I wasn't doing this, I would probably be under a viaduct somewhere doing drugs.

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Because this is what, when I go to bed, this is what I'm thinking about.

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When I wake up, this is what I'm thinking about.

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And in between playing with my kids, it's still what I'm thinking about.

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If I'm playing Barbie with my daughter, I'm thinking, well, Man, look at the red carpet that Barbie has my clients need red carpet and then call this a text.

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I'll text her right after we're done playing, get red carpet for the events we're doing.

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So I just, that's just the way my mind thinks, you know what I mean?

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And I think too, Derek, and I was thinking about this this morning, as I was driving here, as you came into my life for a reason, I think that happens to everybody.

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Right.

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And it's just up to us to figure out.

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Why?

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You know what I mean?

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I'm not very educated.

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I barely finished high school.

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I got into the mortgage industry at the ripe age of 19.

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And, I've been doing it ever since.

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And I went from, I really think I went from being a mortgage loan officer to being a real people person.

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And that's all we're we're in the people business.

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Right.

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And so that's the way I look at it is we're, we're just people.

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Let's just go figure some stuff out.

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You know what I mean?

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No, great answer.

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That's perfect.

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And I'm glad that you kind of tied your fun fact to being in the industry because something that I really want to dive into first is, yeah, you've been in the mortgage business for over 30 years, which is amazing in and of itself.

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I think so many people either a get burnout or they get shiny object, syndrome, and it's a huge problem.

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Maybe tell me a little bit about like, what's, you talked about being the addict, which I think was like a crazy and hilarious parallel.

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What's kept you sucked into this niche and this industry.

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Cause you are an expert.

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And I think when sometimes people become an expert, they're like, well, I'm good at this.

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So I'm going to be full time investor, full time broker.

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Like you have all these spheres that you're in, like what's kept you laser focused.

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My wife, I'll tell you.

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So if you go back to my history, I'll remember I worked for a small broker called Allen mortgage back in Utah.

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That's where I'm from originally.

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And I'll never forget, you know, there's some tough times in the mortgage industry and real estate.

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And right now is a really tough time too.

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Right.

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And I'll never forget.

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I'm boxing up my shit.

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And, uh, my buddy, Scott Phippen comes in and we're still friends today.

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And he, he comes by and he's like, what are you doing?

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I said, I'm done.

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I can't do this.

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This is just way too much.

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I probably had to tell somebody their loan was denied.

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Right.

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And so I'm like, this is just way too much.

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It's not worth the paycheck.

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I'm done.

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And so I'm, I'm boxing up.

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And he said one thing to me, he says, will you do me a favor?

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And I said, yeah, he says, will you call all your realtors and will you have them work with me?

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And I thought about it and I'm like, wait a minute.

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All my realtors.

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I mean, I have, I have a business here.

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I just need to focus on it.

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That one thing led me to unpack my shit.

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And get to work.

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Right.

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And then when we talk about burnout, right?

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So in 2008, there was a, there was a burnout, right?

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The market was changing.

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I moved here in 2004.

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So in 2008, the market starts changing more.

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It's different.

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Right.

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And I have all this years of experience.

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And so how I dealt with burnout then is I had this brilliant idea.

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I was going to open a cupcake shop.

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It was going to be called cutie cakes and I was going to have girls rollerblading.

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I know you can't do this today.

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Remember this is 2008 and yes, I thought, well, what a great idea.

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They can rollerblade downtown with cupcakes and they can be a, maybe a little cute or whatever in selling cupcakes.

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I brought the idea to my wife.

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I said, listen, you can bake the cakes.

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I'll hire the talent.

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I'll get them downtown.

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And she goes, do you think I'm a baker?

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Do you think I know how to do this?

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Shit like get to work.

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And then I came back probably two weeks later.

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And I said, I got this great idea.

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I got this great idea.

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How about a t shirt company, a cool t shirt company.

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And she literally sat me down and she's like, listen, what you do.

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Is sell mortgages, right?

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And so go just sell mortgages.

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People like you, you have an it factor, go play the it factor.

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And so when I got to about 2015, I went from the person of, Hey, I'm just going to, I'm going to be just the loan officer to, Hey, let's shift and start chasing people, you know what I mean?

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And so that keeps me from burning out.

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I haven't worked in 10 years.

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And to be honest, I haven't taken a loan application in over 10 years.

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And I just won the.

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Let's see, CLMA, which is Colorado Lenders Mortgage Association, top mortgage originator for Denver, for Colorado.

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So great, but I'm like, I hope they don't know that I haven't taken a loan application, but what I've done is I've developed a business and a team.

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And the team allows me to go do what I'm really good at.

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And here's what I'm good at.

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I'm good at talking to people.

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I'm good at speaking publicly.

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And that's all I want to do.

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And anything else the team can handle.

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Not talking to people.

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I talked to real estate agents.

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I still talk to clients, but I don't sit down with them one on one and hear about their, their bank statement problems or their, you know what I mean?

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My team is really good at that.

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And so I've leveraged that to where I am today.

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And so how I don't get burned out is I'm doing exactly what I want to do.

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So I had my team do this the other day is, is, we're going into, we're going to be going into 25 real soon.

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I want to know what they like about their job and what they don't like and everything that they don't like.

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It just creates another position for either tech or a person.

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And so we start taking that off their plate now, because if I'm doing everything that I like to do, why shouldn't they?

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Because guess what?

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Just because I don't get burned out doesn't mean they won't.

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And I'm still very, I'm still, I consider myself an entrepreneur.

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I come to Alyssa with this idea, this idea, this idea.

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I got to keep the main thing, the main thing and just stay focused there.

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So I catch myself a lot, probably not as often as they would like, but I still catch myself a lot.

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I'm a visionary.

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here's the other thing I want to talk about is because you have this longevity, I think the other tough thing is that, especially in the investment game, in the agent game, people get some success, but maybe they don't get the success they want.

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And then they immediately change.

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So you've seen some major shifts.

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So whether it's.

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Actually being through the tech bubble of the early two thousands, the great recession slash depression, and then the crazy shit we just went through in 2022 and kind of what we're doing.

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Tell me a little bit about how your business has evolved through those.

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Because I think again, with you being laser focused, you getting those Malcolm Gladwell, 10, 000 hours, I think people need to key in on that no matter what part of the spectrum that they're listing on.

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Yeah.

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So shame on me because I could have just had completely different team handling that business.

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But I'm focused on my real estate agent relationships and building their business.

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Not, not, I can build, if I build their business, it builds mine.

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That's the way I look at it.

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Right.

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So, and I have no secrets.

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If another lender asked me, Hey, can I get this from you?

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I'll give it to you.

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Here's the difference is it's not, it's maybe unique to me.

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But it's not unique to anyone else.

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Other people can do it and they're not going to sell it the same way I do.

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They're not going to say it the same way I do.

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So just give it away.

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I come from a place of abundance.

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Like it, you know, and there's no secrets in this industry because someone else is doing what you're already doing.

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And here's my trick.

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I literally take a little of you, a little of you, a little of you, and I make this.

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And that's how I got to this.

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Like I'm the youngest of six.

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Growing up.

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I just lost my dad.

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Let's see, August 8th.

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I just lost my father.

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Right.

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And, so when I was talking to my brother, he said, dad was so proud of you.

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And I said, I wouldn't have been where I was at today if I didn't have all of you to look up to.

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And what I did is as I, as they were growing older, I said, okay, I like this about my brother.

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I like this about my sister.

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I like this about my brother.

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And that formed me to a point.

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And then I started chasing the Tony Robbins, the Ed Milets, the, you know what I mean?

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The Wayne Dyers, all of these bigger people, the Jim Rohns, because I'm like, well, why not me?

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You know what I mean?

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And so it's just evolving.

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And so I'm still running this race, but I keep the main thing, the main thing, because.

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Then I can add value to my realtors in a different way.

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It's not about the mortgage.

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It's about the relationship for me.

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I learned when you go back, I learned also probably about probably about 2015, quit trading time for money.

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And if I can teach anyone that today, it's like quit trading time for money and quickly take action.

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Right.

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Just go for it.

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You may, you may fail.

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The reason that I'm successful, whatever you use as a definition of success, the reason I'm successful in my definition of success is, the number of people that you've impacted in your life.

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And it starts at home.

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Yeah, that's awesome.

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what if you weren't here, you're not in the room, what do your kids say about you?

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Right.

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One of the best things that happened to me the other day, I was having dinner with my two boys and we were just chatting it up and this complete stranger stops by and he says, I got to tell you something.

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You're a phenomenal father.

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He says, I've been watching you from afar.

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You're engaging in your kids.

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They get on their phones.

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You, you give them a little grief, but the way that they look at you and the way that they are leaning in when you're talking and the way they're smiling with what you're saying, they love you.

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And I'm like, thank you.

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Right.

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For a complete stranger to say that.

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And I look at my boys and they're like, They, you know, they blush, they're 16 and 14.

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They can't, they don't, you know, and we, listen, I tell him, I love him every time, even in front of their buddies.

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And if they don't say they love me back in front of their buddies, I'm like, really, you're embarrassed to love your father.

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Yeah, we have a good relationship, but, but, but it starts at home.

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Right.

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And then if, if home is good, everything else is easy.

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Everything else is easy.

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Yeah.

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And give the audience, because to me, and I'm going to set the stage a little bit for part of the, what we talked about on this show is entrepreneurship, personal development.

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You mentioned some great people in the personal development space.

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Give our audience a little bit of a rundown of your kiddos age, because I'm going to lead you down a path and I'm going to get our audience to where I want them to really key in on this, but give us the range because you've got a range of awesome kiddos.

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I am the youngest of six and if I would have told my wife when I married her, that I would like to have a big family.

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I probably, she probably would not have married me.

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So she brought one to the wedding or to the marriage and I brought one to the marriage.

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Ethan was three at the time.

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Cicely was one.

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That's a whole nother Jerry Springer story.

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But now Ethan is 2025.

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Cicely is now 21 and Beckett is 16.

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London is 14.

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Sebastian is 12.

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Mila is five.

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And I'll tell you what, if Mila was the first child, we wouldn't have had any more.

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Yeah, that's true.

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I think God does that for certain reasons.

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Like you need, I don't want to say easy, but you need graceful kids when it's kids number 3, whatever else, right?

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It doesn't work.

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And many of you know, she's battling leukemia.

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She's going to be fine.

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But at five years old, she's resilient.

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She's tough.

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And God picked the right person to go on this cancer journey because she's stronger than any of them.

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No, that's really well said.

00:12:17.918 --> 00:12:35.708
And I think the beautiful thing about that is, so I only have three and that makes me just admire what you're doing because I think that's a tough thing is that some people in the last 18 months are like, well, the, the, you know, the industry is hard or rates suck or, you know, my clients aren't buying house hacks anymore or whatever else.

00:12:35.749 --> 00:12:40.208
like we could all always have these excuses and what we all like to be doing better, of course.

00:12:40.208 --> 00:12:40.589
But you're right.

00:12:40.589 --> 00:12:44.739
If you get your shit together at home and if you're able to help run a family.

00:12:45.028 --> 00:12:52.639
I'm sure your wife is, you know, doing amazing things as well of keeping the family going, but like to run a family of six, to run a business, like that's a lot.

00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:57.479
You're a person that could have excuses, but you've been able to kind of create this life.

00:12:57.509 --> 00:13:00.609
And this, I don't like to hear the word work life balance to me.

00:13:00.609 --> 00:13:01.178
It's harmony.

00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.658
Like at what point are things in harmony, but you've been able to do a great job.

00:13:04.658 --> 00:13:05.609
And I want people to hear that.

00:13:05.609 --> 00:13:07.568
I don't believe in the work life balance.

00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:08.019
Yeah.

00:13:08.158 --> 00:13:09.109
Because I'm out of balance.

00:13:09.469 --> 00:13:11.658
Balance people very rarely change the world.

00:13:12.099 --> 00:13:16.499
You think, you think Elon Musk is, is, Well, I can't it's five o'clock.

00:13:16.499 --> 00:13:17.188
I got to shut it down.

00:13:17.599 --> 00:13:17.859
Right.

00:13:17.859 --> 00:13:19.788
And he's got 40 kids or however many kids he's got.

00:13:20.119 --> 00:13:25.249
But so, so here's the thing is so Ethan, Ethan was a COVID lender.

00:13:25.259 --> 00:13:27.928
What I mean by that is he graduated high school.

00:13:28.009 --> 00:13:29.318
he didn't want to go to college.

00:13:29.729 --> 00:13:31.458
And so I said, well, you can't live here.

00:13:31.698 --> 00:13:34.553
so we sent him to Spain to learn language immersion.

00:13:34.573 --> 00:13:40.504
He came back fluent within like a year and then COVID hit.

00:13:40.594 --> 00:13:44.234
And so I vowed to never let one of my kids get in the mortgage side of things.

00:13:44.234 --> 00:13:44.573
Right.

00:13:44.894 --> 00:13:46.984
And so he's like, well, let me just give it a shot.

00:13:47.413 --> 00:13:49.504
And he crushed it for two years.

00:13:49.953 --> 00:13:52.283
But then he didn't want to do the hard work.

00:13:52.744 --> 00:13:54.374
That you and I are accustomed to.

00:13:54.714 --> 00:13:56.124
And so I said, well, you got two options.

00:13:56.313 --> 00:13:58.844
You can go to school or you can go to school now.

00:13:58.923 --> 00:14:00.323
Cicely was already in school.

00:14:00.333 --> 00:14:00.683
Right.

00:14:00.714 --> 00:14:02.033
And so he's like, go to school.

00:14:02.033 --> 00:14:04.803
I said, yeah, go to school because I never went to school.

00:14:05.413 --> 00:14:06.734
It's probably, I don't have any regrets.

00:14:06.734 --> 00:14:12.913
If I could go to, if I, I, one day I'll, I'll, I'll go to school and maybe it was Sebastian or Mila, but I never went, but I believe in education.

00:14:13.234 --> 00:14:19.333
I got my education through the people that I met mentioned before in the entrepreneurial space to give me the, the leg up.

00:14:19.344 --> 00:14:21.943
So I wasn't the most uneducated individual in the room.

00:14:22.104 --> 00:14:26.484
I wanted to be able to have a conversation with anyone, no matter what the conversation was about.

00:14:27.374 --> 00:14:29.163
So I study, I study, I still study today.

00:14:29.163 --> 00:14:30.864
I read a lot just to be sharp.

00:14:31.323 --> 00:14:33.114
So now they're, they're off to school.

00:14:33.453 --> 00:14:37.943
My son Beckett, uh, likes basketball, doesn't love it.

00:14:38.323 --> 00:14:44.073
The other two, Spassion's an addict like his dad and hockey 24 seven and same with London with soccer.

00:14:44.533 --> 00:14:45.644
So Beckett likes basketball.

00:14:45.644 --> 00:14:46.203
He doesn't love it.

00:14:46.224 --> 00:14:47.693
So I'm like, Beckett, get a side hustle.

00:14:48.323 --> 00:14:49.073
Do something.

00:14:49.214 --> 00:14:50.683
I said, what do you, what are you passionate about?

00:14:51.274 --> 00:14:52.453
And he's like, well, I like shoes.

00:14:52.524 --> 00:14:53.323
You have a lot of shoes.

00:14:53.323 --> 00:14:53.823
I like shoes.

00:14:53.874 --> 00:14:55.033
I said, good resell them.

00:14:55.354 --> 00:14:56.384
So I gave him a starter kit.

00:14:56.484 --> 00:14:58.833
I gave him a bunch of my old shoes to date.

00:14:58.933 --> 00:15:01.354
He's been doing this for about 18, 19 months to date.

00:15:01.354 --> 00:15:03.974
He's made over 40, 000 reselling shoes.

00:15:04.283 --> 00:15:06.323
He has a little flip shoe flipping business.

00:15:06.844 --> 00:15:15.323
So the flipping game, whether in, whether you're in shoes, whether you're reselling stuff on, on, Facebook marketplace.

00:15:15.818 --> 00:15:22.619
I heard another comment the other day, lead flipping, there's a thing called lead flipping, where I'm going to cultivate the lead.

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.349
I'm going to get it done to this point.

00:15:24.548 --> 00:15:29.359
And I'm going to hand it over to a agent or a lender for a higher commission.

00:15:29.578 --> 00:15:33.769
And they're going to have to do less work, but they're almost guaranteed a paycheck lead flipping.

00:15:35.089 --> 00:15:35.519
It's crazy.

00:15:35.729 --> 00:15:35.958
No.

00:15:35.958 --> 00:15:36.639
And I love that.

00:15:36.859 --> 00:15:38.548
And I love how we're kind of bounced around on this one.

00:15:38.548 --> 00:15:41.168
But to me, education is really important as well.

00:15:41.489 --> 00:15:48.749
And we're personally at an interesting inflection point, I think in our society and our country, and to give you some quick backstory on me.

00:15:48.749 --> 00:15:57.558
So I'm, I was classically educated in that I come from a wall street family of people that are like, you're going to go to college, whether you'd like it or not, you better work in finance.

00:15:57.658 --> 00:15:58.639
And I just said, you know what?

00:15:58.639 --> 00:15:58.889
Screw it.

00:15:58.889 --> 00:15:59.808
I want to do my own thing.

00:15:59.808 --> 00:16:01.609
So I was in college.

00:16:01.908 --> 00:16:03.663
One, Completely across the country.

00:16:03.663 --> 00:16:08.303
And my two very, very specific criteria were, can I get a business degree and can I ski?

00:16:08.453 --> 00:16:15.984
And so I ended up at Montana state university in Bozeman, which everybody's like, I was living in Texas at the time for high school and people are going to these elite colleges.

00:16:15.984 --> 00:16:16.984
And I was like, I don't give a shit.

00:16:17.014 --> 00:16:18.053
I just want to go someplace.

00:16:18.533 --> 00:16:20.063
where I can have a fun experience.

00:16:20.374 --> 00:16:21.864
I can develop personal skills.

00:16:21.974 --> 00:16:24.903
I've always had a knack for sales, no matter what it was.

00:16:25.283 --> 00:16:31.923
And I knew I wanted to do some sort of business and then things completely changed and I went into professional sports, but I thought, Oh, I have to have an MBA.

00:16:32.364 --> 00:16:33.683
So I got an MBA.

00:16:33.943 --> 00:16:35.443
I paid for it myself.

00:16:35.443 --> 00:16:37.494
It took me 10 years to pay it off.

00:16:37.813 --> 00:16:41.813
Side story of the reason I went took so long is because I had 2 percent money.

00:16:41.813 --> 00:16:42.803
So to me, it was actually free.

00:16:42.803 --> 00:16:45.224
I'm like, let's just stretch this thing out as long as possible.

00:16:45.614 --> 00:16:48.004
But now fast forward to where my kiddos are.

00:16:48.004 --> 00:16:50.573
We're about to send our first off to college.

00:16:50.844 --> 00:16:54.394
And it's interesting because he's a super creative kid.

00:16:54.624 --> 00:16:55.313
It's really cool.

00:16:55.313 --> 00:16:56.744
He wants to be a therapist.

00:16:57.043 --> 00:16:57.624
It's interesting.

00:16:57.624 --> 00:17:00.533
You bring up the point of like, yeah, do they want to follow in your footsteps?

00:17:00.764 --> 00:17:04.513
He took a real estate course in high school and entrepreneurship course.

00:17:05.044 --> 00:17:06.933
All I needed to do was just pass the damn test.

00:17:06.933 --> 00:17:08.324
And we're like, just do it as a side hustle.

00:17:08.324 --> 00:17:09.403
And he's like, I don't want to do it.

00:17:09.804 --> 00:17:11.153
So I'm like, okay, it is what it is.

00:17:11.153 --> 00:17:16.203
But I think school is so interesting now where we've got new, probably in your sphere, I want to hear about this.

00:17:16.753 --> 00:17:23.304
I feel like sometimes it's almost a badge of honor for the parents to say, I'm sending my kid to Notre Dame or I'm sending my kid to Stanford or whatever.

00:17:23.653 --> 00:17:25.328
And I hate to break the news to them, but.

00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:31.128
The kid at Stanford and the kid at Notre Dame or the kid at Northwestern, they all have MBAs.

00:17:31.509 --> 00:17:35.759
So like, and I even have read stuff recently where people are having to unlearn their MBA.

00:17:35.778 --> 00:17:38.239
So it's like, there's just so many different paths.

00:17:38.288 --> 00:17:42.338
And I love that your kids are doing different paths because to me, it's just, it's so important.

00:17:42.338 --> 00:17:45.719
And you've got to value that ROI compared to your ROI.

00:17:45.979 --> 00:17:53.898
Of getting six year head start in the mortgage industry on somebody who comes out and has a finance degree and doesn't know shit about mortgages, you already LA that person.

00:17:53.898 --> 00:17:53.989
Right.

00:17:53.989 --> 00:17:57.138
So, I don't know, I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on both sides.

00:17:57.138 --> 00:17:57.848
It's tough.

00:17:58.088 --> 00:18:12.429
I want them to be entrepreneur, but I also want them to have the experience because the relationships that they can make, that the friendships that they're going to build and the situations that they're going to be put in to making sure that they're going to do the right thing when mom and dad aren't even watching.

00:18:12.858 --> 00:18:13.108
Right.

00:18:13.108 --> 00:18:16.328
And so that's, that's, That puts them in those positions quite frequently.

00:18:16.328 --> 00:18:20.278
I've got one at high point university, which is a great school out of, North Carolina.

00:18:20.278 --> 00:18:24.838
And I've got another one in Tennessee at Belmont university, and I don't care where the others go.

00:18:25.739 --> 00:18:33.749
I just want them to go and I want them to go and to learn, but I also want them to go for the experience and I'm not expecting them to come out with 4.

00:18:33.749 --> 00:18:34.419
0.

00:18:34.429 --> 00:18:35.709
If they do great, right.

00:18:35.959 --> 00:18:39.919
But I want them to just go and be in the moment.

00:18:39.969 --> 00:18:42.638
Because a lot of those, those life lessons will carry.

00:18:42.659 --> 00:18:46.679
Now, do I think they're going to be a doctor or lawyer or attorney if they choose to?

00:18:46.679 --> 00:18:47.048
Great.

00:18:47.509 --> 00:18:50.798
But if they come out and they say, Hey, I'm going to be a therapist.

00:18:50.798 --> 00:18:51.348
I'll take it.

00:18:51.719 --> 00:18:52.828
But here's what I tell your son.

00:18:53.078 --> 00:18:55.009
You want to know where most therapy is done?

00:18:55.628 --> 00:18:56.519
Mortgage and real estate.

00:18:58.118 --> 00:18:58.656
Well said.

00:18:58.656 --> 00:19:07.442
I joked with him, I said, we might be the first company to have an in house therapist that can help our people because we're dealing with some shit.

00:19:07.452 --> 00:19:14.212
And people are dealing with life and we've got hoarders and we've got seven decision makers trying to sell a house or you've got loan rejections.

00:19:14.222 --> 00:19:14.563
You're right.

00:19:14.932 --> 00:19:15.113
That's it.

00:19:15.303 --> 00:19:16.333
We maybe just figured this out.

00:19:16.343 --> 00:19:17.173
In house therapy.

00:19:17.232 --> 00:19:17.532
Done.

00:19:18.202 --> 00:19:26.982
Here's the other thing that you have to, so that's the easy part, the denials, the, the delays, but it's the home life, the divorce, they're not present.

00:19:27.512 --> 00:19:28.593
They're chasing something else.

00:19:28.593 --> 00:19:29.103
They shouldn't be.

00:19:29.123 --> 00:19:29.583
You know what I mean?

00:19:29.883 --> 00:19:31.222
And the addiction, right?

00:19:31.732 --> 00:19:33.512
It's like, yeah, I do.

00:19:33.563 --> 00:19:34.702
Have an addiction problem.

00:19:34.702 --> 00:19:39.153
I've never been labeled as an addict, but I know what I'm capable of doing if left alone.

00:19:39.452 --> 00:19:40.982
And so my wife knows that.

00:19:40.982 --> 00:19:42.192
And, and I talk about it.

00:19:42.202 --> 00:19:43.103
Why do I talk about it?

00:19:43.343 --> 00:19:48.353
Because it's part of therapy to discuss your weaknesses, right?

00:19:48.613 --> 00:19:51.333
And it, and I think too, it's a level of vulnerability.

00:19:51.682 --> 00:19:52.153
Well, look at him.

00:19:52.153 --> 00:19:52.702
He's in a suit.

00:19:52.712 --> 00:19:53.803
He must have his shit together.

00:19:53.992 --> 00:19:54.462
No, I don't.

00:19:55.712 --> 00:19:56.053
Right.

00:19:57.143 --> 00:19:57.313
Yeah.

00:19:57.313 --> 00:19:59.252
I've made a lot of bad mistakes and guess what?

00:19:59.252 --> 00:20:02.022
I'm going to make a lot more, but my better days are ahead of me.

00:20:02.022 --> 00:20:02.772
They're not behind me.

00:20:03.002 --> 00:20:03.613
And I believe in that.

00:20:03.613 --> 00:20:05.002
I don't have a, I don't, I tease.

00:20:05.002 --> 00:20:07.103
I say, I don't have a rear view mirror in my car.

00:20:07.103 --> 00:20:12.903
So I take it out because I have a windshield because the windshield is my vision and that's bigger than the rear view mirror.

00:20:12.903 --> 00:20:15.242
So my, my, my future is bigger than my past.

00:20:15.242 --> 00:20:16.133
I have a great past.

00:20:16.538 --> 00:20:17.768
Yeah, but I never talk.

00:20:17.788 --> 00:20:19.538
I'm let's talk about the future.

00:20:19.597 --> 00:20:22.827
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00:20:23.127 --> 00:20:27.397
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00:20:54.702 --> 00:20:54.962
Okay.

00:20:55.113 --> 00:20:56.143
Let's get back to the episode.

00:20:57.738 --> 00:21:03.877
it's been really fun because we've really set the stage for what you've done personally, what you've done professionally.

00:21:03.917 --> 00:21:05.327
I love the personal development.

00:21:05.327 --> 00:21:05.738
We'll kind of break it down.

00:21:05.738 --> 00:21:15.647
Bookend that here at the end of this segment, but I want to talk a little bit more nitty gritty about the mortgage business, about the parallels that we've got in real estate investing in with our real estate agent partners.

00:21:15.837 --> 00:21:18.077
I did see an interesting article and I want to get your take on this.

00:21:18.117 --> 00:21:23.938
I want to talk a little bit about the market because you've got such great experience and like fine tune acumen with that.

00:21:24.288 --> 00:21:29.238
There was an article on CNBC that talked about where england, I should say has their rates.

00:21:29.498 --> 00:21:38.407
Everybody's always going to talk about, you know, where rate's going to go or whatever else, but I thought it was interesting where they are lending at lower than what their essentially fed funds rate is.

00:21:38.728 --> 00:21:40.698
Do you think that that would like break the market here?

00:21:40.698 --> 00:21:46.587
Or like, where do you think we're at from a rate perspective and things just being on the way to normal?

00:21:46.637 --> 00:21:49.248
I want to get your take on kind of where you feel like we are right now.

00:21:49.248 --> 00:21:51.038
And then we're going to talk about some flipping stuff.

00:21:51.077 --> 00:21:55.862
if you look at two things, if you go back to the late eighties, mid to late eighties, right.

00:21:56.051 --> 00:21:59.402
Interest rates were double digits and anybody who bought in that era.

00:21:59.967 --> 00:22:01.586
And it's still alive today.

00:22:01.586 --> 00:22:07.616
Most cases, they talk about, well, if you had an interest rate in single digits, you're, you're fine, right?

00:22:07.787 --> 00:22:09.987
It's still cheap money, not inexpensive.

00:22:10.047 --> 00:22:10.817
It's cheap.

00:22:11.166 --> 00:22:11.537
Right.

00:22:11.836 --> 00:22:12.866
But then we got spoiled.

00:22:13.497 --> 00:22:15.326
We got spoiled by these two and three.

00:22:15.356 --> 00:22:16.436
Now we have a problem.

00:22:16.757 --> 00:22:17.596
Here's the problem.

00:22:17.676 --> 00:22:22.797
80 percent of Americans have a rate below four and a half percent.

00:22:24.336 --> 00:22:29.977
They're not going to move unless they can move and afford something similar or better.

00:22:30.207 --> 00:22:33.807
And in most cases, better than what they have today.

00:22:34.267 --> 00:22:39.096
So now you're seeing people now this whole remote thing where we can work wherever we want.

00:22:39.507 --> 00:22:41.076
You're seeing people move.

00:22:41.251 --> 00:22:44.682
to other areas of the United States that's less expensive.

00:22:45.402 --> 00:22:47.432
Our main office is in Cleveland, Ohio.

00:22:47.832 --> 00:22:51.721
Cleveland, Ohio is very inexpensive to live, or it was.

00:22:51.882 --> 00:22:57.892
What I mean by that, in 2020, you could buy a house in Cleveland, Ohio for about 150, 000.

00:22:58.271 --> 00:23:01.192
Now that same house in Cleveland, Ohio is almost 350, 000.

00:23:02.041 --> 00:23:03.211
So, it's happening.

00:23:03.211 --> 00:23:06.551
We're seeing that, increase in even Cleveland.

00:23:06.612 --> 00:23:08.342
So how do we balance it out?

00:23:08.352 --> 00:23:15.182
If you look at, like England, like you said, if you also look at Canada, right, the lending rules are a little bit different.

00:23:15.751 --> 00:23:18.471
And it's almost like there's just a flat rate.

00:23:18.721 --> 00:23:22.741
And then the difference between you and the bank is the value that you bring.

00:23:23.422 --> 00:23:32.001
And I think to, to kind of just move to the NAR settlement, the biggest thing that agents deal with is what value do you bring as a buyer's agent?

00:23:32.422 --> 00:23:36.122
And I firmly believe buyer's agents have a phenomenal opportunity to make more money.

00:23:36.362 --> 00:23:41.132
I'm excited for them if they know what their value is and how to articulate it.

00:23:41.521 --> 00:23:49.172
But I believe that, that interest rates right now, I mean, you're, you're hovering, we got a veteran in it at five and three quarters yesterday.

00:23:49.481 --> 00:23:50.791
So that's a great rate.

00:23:51.271 --> 00:24:01.882
I think that for us to have the movement that we need and for our kids to be able to buy, we got to see something in the fours consistently for a longer period of time.

00:24:01.912 --> 00:24:03.211
Two and three is really low.

00:24:03.721 --> 00:24:08.281
The other move that we have to see, and I hate to say this, we got to go to a 40 and 50 year mortgage.

00:24:08.821 --> 00:24:09.781
I was just about to ask Yeah.

00:24:09.781 --> 00:24:10.892
That was another article I saw.

00:24:10.922 --> 00:24:11.041
Yeah.

00:24:11.041 --> 00:24:12.031
Tell me your take on that.

00:24:12.031 --> 00:24:14.221
I think there's pros and cons, but I want to hear your thoughts.

00:24:14.221 --> 00:24:17.201
Yeah, it's so a 40 people talk about a 40 year mortgage.

00:24:17.201 --> 00:24:20.221
Now, the problem with the 40 year mortgage is the rates actually higher.

00:24:20.221 --> 00:24:23.352
So you, okay, you add 10 years, but then you add the increased interest rate.

00:24:23.362 --> 00:24:24.102
It doesn't work.

00:24:24.192 --> 00:24:25.731
The math does not work.

00:24:26.132 --> 00:24:31.791
So how do we get to a 40 year that is bought and sold on wall street, right?

00:24:31.791 --> 00:24:33.451
Because that's where the money's coming from.

00:24:33.731 --> 00:24:39.132
So how do we get the appetite for wall street to take a 40 and now a 50 year mortgage?

00:24:39.751 --> 00:24:40.342
I don't know about you.

00:24:40.342 --> 00:24:41.961
I bought my first house at 19.

00:24:41.977 --> 00:24:44.096
It was 63, 000.

00:24:44.436 --> 00:24:49.287
I was literally sitting across from the table there, and a client of mine was buying a house from an estate sale.

00:24:49.957 --> 00:24:54.616
And I simply asked the right question, do you have anything else that's on the market?

00:24:55.076 --> 00:24:59.606
And they said, lo and behold, we have a condo that is 800 square feet.

00:24:59.666 --> 00:25:03.227
It's downtown Salt Lake, and it's a one bedroom.

00:25:03.227 --> 00:25:04.567
So it's really hard to move.

00:25:04.582 --> 00:25:08.092
19 single, no pets.

00:25:08.112 --> 00:25:10.451
I'm like, well, what do you think you're asking for?

00:25:10.491 --> 00:25:13.011
And they said 70, 000 is what we're asking.

00:25:13.481 --> 00:25:14.231
And I said, can I see it?

00:25:15.311 --> 00:25:18.162
I mean, roaches, disgusting, like you name it.

00:25:18.162 --> 00:25:18.592
Right.

00:25:18.932 --> 00:25:20.801
I call him and I'm like, Hey, I'd like to buy it.

00:25:20.801 --> 00:25:22.662
I'll buy it for 63, 000 sold.

00:25:23.422 --> 00:25:25.162
Now I don't have the 3 percent down.

00:25:25.162 --> 00:25:25.811
Cause I'm 19.

00:25:25.811 --> 00:25:28.051
I just got in the mortgage industry and I'm 10 99.

00:25:28.092 --> 00:25:29.201
So no one's going to lend to me.

00:25:29.932 --> 00:25:30.731
So I call him back.

00:25:30.731 --> 00:25:34.771
I'm like, Hey, if I could come up with 3 percent down, will you finance me for five years?

00:25:34.817 --> 00:25:35.076
Seller finance.

00:25:35.076 --> 00:25:35.626
Seller finance.

00:25:36.116 --> 00:25:36.267
Yeah.

00:25:36.356 --> 00:25:36.596
Love it.

00:25:37.227 --> 00:25:37.436
done.

00:25:37.686 --> 00:25:39.297
Mom, can I borrow 3, 000?

00:25:39.356 --> 00:25:42.146
I have whatever 1, 500, right?

00:25:42.166 --> 00:25:43.376
So my mom's like, yes, go for it.

00:25:43.376 --> 00:25:45.426
I'm telling her what I'm buying for the next, three months.

00:25:45.426 --> 00:25:46.787
I fix up 800 square feet.

00:25:46.787 --> 00:25:47.406
It's beautiful.

00:25:47.406 --> 00:25:48.537
I get rid of the roaches.

00:25:48.537 --> 00:25:51.416
I move them downstairs, to the apartment down below.

00:25:51.676 --> 00:25:53.186
And yeah, that's someone else's problem.

00:25:53.457 --> 00:25:56.346
But, so literally, I sold that property.

00:25:56.576 --> 00:25:57.836
I bought it in 93.

00:25:57.876 --> 00:26:00.967
I sold it in 96 for 265, 000.

00:26:01.777 --> 00:26:03.646
To my sister because I love her.

00:26:03.936 --> 00:26:04.267
Yeah.

00:26:04.396 --> 00:26:05.007
I'm not kidding.

00:26:05.017 --> 00:26:08.916
About a year ago, she calls me and she says, your condo, your old condos on the market.

00:26:08.926 --> 00:26:09.797
Do you want to buy it back?

00:26:10.287 --> 00:26:11.686
And I said, why would I do that?

00:26:11.686 --> 00:26:12.666
I've got, it's one bedroom.

00:26:12.666 --> 00:26:13.646
It's 800 square feet.

00:26:13.646 --> 00:26:14.576
I said, but how much is it?

00:26:15.146 --> 00:26:15.696
What do you think?

00:26:15.717 --> 00:26:16.856
I bought it in 93.

00:26:17.686 --> 00:26:18.636
She sold it.

00:26:18.696 --> 00:26:19.686
So she sold it.

00:26:19.686 --> 00:26:20.926
I sold it to her.

00:26:21.027 --> 00:26:22.136
And then she sold it.

00:26:22.146 --> 00:26:23.876
She probably sold it in about 2000.

00:26:27.481 --> 00:26:35.412
And now it's been probably resold or what have you, but in 23 downtown salt lake, five story building, little high rise overlooks the Mormon temple.

00:26:35.672 --> 00:26:36.461
Great space.

00:26:36.501 --> 00:26:37.501
What do you think it's sold for?

00:26:37.642 --> 00:26:38.451
800 square feet.

00:26:38.682 --> 00:26:39.342
350?

00:26:39.422 --> 00:26:41.521
750,000 seven?

00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:42.529
What?

00:26:43.049 --> 00:26:44.140
I would not have pegged that.

00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:46.599
I mean, I know Salt Lake's got some great appreciation too.

00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:47.359
Holy shit.

00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:48.990
real estates meant to be kept.

00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:50.519
Now I get it.

00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:58.660
The flipping part of it makes sense to only accumulate more money to then buy real estate, to buy it and hold in my belief.

00:26:58.660 --> 00:26:58.990
Right.

00:26:59.170 --> 00:27:01.210
I wish I never would have sold it, but.

00:27:01.490 --> 00:27:07.819
table that the reason that I sold it though, was cause I bought another property, made money, bought another property, made money.

00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:12.309
And the money from that condo today, I can track to the house I live in today.

00:27:13.329 --> 00:27:15.000
That's the power of buying real estate.

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:15.660
I totally agree.

00:27:15.950 --> 00:27:16.680
Well, the cool thing about that.

00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:17.390
I'm glad you brought that up.

00:27:17.390 --> 00:27:21.160
It's funny because my father in law lives in Montana, great real estate investor.

00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.500
He's owned a handful of smaller apartment buildings.

00:27:23.509 --> 00:27:26.660
He's owned retail downtown and, but his baby is self storage.

00:27:27.009 --> 00:27:29.619
And I think at first he was pumped that I was getting into real estate.

00:27:29.619 --> 00:27:32.869
Cause I was in very blessed to be in two really great corporate jobs.

00:27:33.410 --> 00:27:36.079
Wanted to get into real estate and saw what he was doing.

00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:40.670
But after a while, he's like, well, this flipping thing, why do you keep flipping?

00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:41.210
But.

00:27:41.710 --> 00:27:42.789
I'm in a weird spot to me.

00:27:42.809 --> 00:27:43.599
I'm also addicted.

00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:51.220
Like I actually love flipping, but as a business and not to say that I could just own a tire company or whatever in business as a business, I wouldn't want to do that.

00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:56.250
I love flipping, but it's all about fueling our ability to acquire long term assets.

00:27:56.259 --> 00:28:01.529
So whether it's the multifamily we owned out of state, we sold that we've traded that we're sitting in our co work space.

00:28:01.529 --> 00:28:02.509
We now own this building.

00:28:02.509 --> 00:28:02.789
You're right.

00:28:02.789 --> 00:28:08.920
It's all about You know, building up that residual income, um, and those assets and that appreciation.

00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.450
So tell me a little bit about you.

00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:11.750
You have done a couple of flips.

00:28:11.750 --> 00:28:15.029
I want to hear about some of your flips too, because our audience like would love to hear that.

00:28:15.029 --> 00:28:16.410
Give us, give us some of those contexts.

00:28:16.950 --> 00:28:18.529
I did my first flip.

00:28:18.529 --> 00:28:20.930
I think it was, it had to have been, 2000.

00:28:20.970 --> 00:28:24.109
Listen in the worst neighborhood of Salt Lake City, Utah, if you can believe it or not.

00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:27.869
It was 50, 000 and there was two problems.

00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:32.170
One, it was in a gang infested area in Salt Lake City.

00:28:32.509 --> 00:28:32.960
Yeah.

00:28:33.230 --> 00:28:33.829
And.

00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:38.220
The lady who lived in this house, had a lot of cats with no litter boxes.

00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:38.710
Right?

00:28:38.859 --> 00:28:41.279
So, so it was like, okay, what do you do?

00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:41.710
Right.

00:28:41.869 --> 00:28:43.650
So I'm like, great, I'll buy it.

00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:44.980
So I bought it.

00:28:45.009 --> 00:28:45.700
I'm not kidding.

00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:49.130
There was a day where I was doing some of the work myself just to feel manly.

00:28:49.549 --> 00:28:52.079
The gang lined up on the street right in front of me.

00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:54.160
And all they did is they just sat there like this.

00:28:54.410 --> 00:28:55.039
Watching me.

00:28:55.220 --> 00:29:01.390
And then finally I walked over and I introduced myself to him and they didn't say a word and I said, here's what I'm going to do.

00:29:01.430 --> 00:29:08.440
I'm going to fix up this property, which is going to beautify the area that if your parents own a home there, I'm going to make them more money.

00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:12.609
And it almost resonated with them right then and there that they thought about it.

00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:17.740
And, what I found out is that their parent didn't own a home, but guess who bought one of the houses?

00:29:18.595 --> 00:29:20.615
One of the gang members, I got them financed.

00:29:20.615 --> 00:29:21.234
No way.

00:29:21.275 --> 00:29:21.934
I went over there.

00:29:22.144 --> 00:29:23.724
That's business development right there.

00:29:23.734 --> 00:29:24.194
Yeah.

00:29:24.335 --> 00:29:24.674
Love it.

00:29:24.765 --> 00:29:29.744
yeah, it's like, I'm either going to get shot, but I'll take the option.

00:29:29.744 --> 00:29:30.424
So yeah.

00:29:30.424 --> 00:29:32.684
So needless to say, we fixed it up for them.

00:29:32.684 --> 00:29:33.194
They bought it.

00:29:33.194 --> 00:29:34.484
And so we were doing property flips.

00:29:34.535 --> 00:29:42.194
We got in trouble by the state of Utah on a couple of property flips, because they didn't feel like that they, we were assigning contracts.

00:29:42.345 --> 00:29:42.664
Okay.

00:29:43.045 --> 00:29:45.765
So clearly in the contract, it was written that.

00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:48.049
We may or may not own the property.

00:29:48.509 --> 00:29:48.829
Right.

00:29:48.859 --> 00:29:50.210
And it was clear as day.

00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.309
So what we were doing is we would have the property under contract, right?

00:29:54.789 --> 00:29:56.960
And then we would negotiate with the buyer.

00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:59.799
They want a new carpet, new paint and whatever else they wanted.

00:29:59.869 --> 00:30:00.140
Right.

00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:01.269
So we bought the property.

00:30:01.269 --> 00:30:08.700
Let's say we brought the property back then for 150 and we'd carpet, paint, we just sourced the buyer and we were selling them for 200 to 50.

00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:11.029
The state didn't like it.

00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:12.069
Yeah.

00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:18.049
Because it, because they thought that we were taking advantage of the buyer because the buyer could have went and found that property.

00:30:18.509 --> 00:30:19.490
That's entrepreneurship.

00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.480
And so we had a problem.

00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:28.299
Some licenses got taken mine and there was some other stuff involved with it, but yeah, and then I got it back, but it was a big deal.

00:30:28.394 --> 00:30:34.384
This has been such a great episode with Gavin Ekstrom that we're actually going to turn this into two different episodes.

00:30:34.765 --> 00:30:35.384
So stay tuned.

00:30:35.825 --> 00:30:37.964
Tune in, come back here shortly.

00:30:37.964 --> 00:30:43.305
We want to get you back with part two, but we're going to just pause right now with part one, cut this into two episodes.

00:30:43.565 --> 00:30:46.115
I really think you're going to get tons of information when you come back.

00:30:46.115 --> 00:30:48.674
We're actually going to learn about Gavin losing his license.

00:30:48.974 --> 00:30:50.454
So that's definitely a cliffhanger.

00:30:50.454 --> 00:30:51.654
You're not going to want to miss that one.

00:30:51.654 --> 00:30:52.964
So come back, see us soon.

00:30:52.984 --> 00:30:54.164
And we'll catch you guys on the flip side.

00:30:54.164 --> 00:30:57.194
Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of raising the flipping bar.

00:30:57.575 --> 00:31:10.884
If you found value in our insights and stories, let's keep the conversation going, connect with me on social media, and be sure to share this episode with friends or colleagues who might benefit your feedback and reviews, help us grow and reach more listeners like you.

00:31:11.265 --> 00:31:14.414
So please, if you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review.

00:31:15.244 --> 00:31:18.174
Thanks again to the elevation Academy for sponsoring today's show.

00:31:18.775 --> 00:31:22.085
If you're interested in learning more, click the link in the show notes below.

00:31:22.595 --> 00:31:24.035
And remember every property.

00:31:24.095 --> 00:31:24.815
Tells a story.

00:31:25.164 --> 00:31:26.454
Every deal brings a lesson.

00:31:27.025 --> 00:31:29.815
Keep reaching for those goals and we'll catch you on the flip side.

00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:33.160
Hey everybody.

00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:36.380
Thank you so much for listening and watching raising a flipping bar.

00:31:36.690 --> 00:31:42.029
Just a basic overall disclaimer is that a, this is not legal advice.

00:31:42.230 --> 00:31:43.640
B, this is not tax advice.

00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:45.380
See, this is not financial advice.

00:31:45.750 --> 00:31:49.430
I hope you get the gist, but I'm obviously not a lawyer, not a CPA.

00:31:49.569 --> 00:31:54.109
Hell I'm not even a real estate agent actually, but in general, we hope you get a ton of value out of this, but there is a bit of a disclaimer.

00:31:54.109 --> 00:31:57.670
Please consult a professional if you have any questions whatsoever.

00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:58.369
Thanks for tuning in.