How to Find the Right Contractor with Travis Masse

What I'll generally do is show 'em our board and say, listen, if you do X, Y, and Z, you're gonna get your second drop payment. And then once that second drop payment's done, you need to focus on getting the kitchen cabinets installed, the counters, the basin case, the paint, and then you're gonna get your third draw.

So they're not up in the air GCs. They need that money, they need that cash flow to pay their crews. This gives them peace of mind. Hey, once I get this done, I know I'm gonna get a good check and there's no guesswork. It's not like we're gonna come in and nitpick 'em and say, Well, we want you to do this, this, and this.

It's cut and dry. You meet these guidelines for a year. Check. Welcome to Raising the Flipping Bar. My name's Derek Marlin and I've redeveloped over 80 properties in Metro Denver. I've bought and sold 115 multi-family doors in Cincinnati, Ohio, and my team has done just under 300 single family rental acquisitions for our clients on this show.

My goal is to help you make more money. Save you a bunch of time and create a well-oiled flipping machine. Let's dive in and if you want more information, head to fix and flip that show. Welcome back. We're super excited to have another episode of Raising the Flipping Bar. So what we're gonna talk about in this one is finding the right contractor.

And we know that there are just so many pitfalls that people can have when they're trying to find the right contractor that I think this episode's gonna be super, super valuable whether you're an experience investor or whether you're doing your first flip. So as we always do, we're gonna do a quick recap on our past episode, which was finding deals in the top five ways that we find deals.

Our number one real estate agents. Seems kind of, you know, intuitive, but a lot of people don't lean into building relationships with real estate agents. So be in that world, add value to those people, and, uh, pay referral fees. That's, you know, pretty simple. Um, second one for us is cold calling. We use a cold calling company that calls.

40 hours a week, two people at any given point, and we get a lot of deals from that. There's obviously some expense associated with that, but it's really our number two way to find deals is using a cold calling company. Um, key there is you gotta follow up immediately and call those people back. Those warm leads are super, super important.

The next one is networking. Again. We talked about three or four different areas, whether it's divorce attorneys, whether it's estate sales, whether it's family law. Um, you know, working with, um, you know, senior citizen people in the senior citizen space, I think that's a, a way for you to dive really, really deep and network in those communities and find ways to, to deal source there.

And, uh, then you jump into wholesaling, definitely working with both larger wholesalers and smaller wholesalers, but they're definitely a, a key piece to the puzzle. Of finding properties and lastly, is almost really what we're doing now, but that's digital media. So whether it's being on podcasts, whether it's promoting and producing your own content on all the social media platforms and then the advertising component to that.

So it's really just kind of taking those five different tiers and figuring out what works best for you from your skillset and most importantly, your budget. But what I wanted to to really jump into on this episode is we've got Travis Massey, our senior project manager with Elevation. Travis, welcome to the show.

Oh, thanks for having me. Absolutely. So again, we're really talking about finding the right contractor and the best contractor to run your flips. Um, but before we get into that, I think it's really interesting for people to have a little bit of background about you. So kind of tell us a little bit about your background.

Um, overall, before you even got into the, you know, fix and flip or the project management space, just tell us a little bit about your background. Um, well, I've worked in kind of the construction industry off and on, um, throughout my time. I started out in a boutique, um, kitchen and bath company, so we did kind of high-end faucets, fixtures, countertops, you know, you kind of like you're really expensive homes and, and sold and did the, uh, director of operations for that company for a long time.

Um, around C O V D. I transitioned and saw an opening with a general contractor who wanted me to bring, come on as his project manager. Um, doing similar things as far as the clientele, high end kitchen and baths, those type of remodels for him. Uh, ran his business for, um, a few years and then, um, just had the opportunity to join the Elevation team and it seemed like a good fit for me given the construction background, the kitchen and bath background to, to progress into Elevation.

Yeah. And tell us a little bit about your sports background. That's something that I actually really enjoy that we have at Elevation is a lot of our teammates do come up through the sports industry, and I actually think that's a great way, whether it's within our company or whether it's working with contractors.

But tell us a little about your sports background. Yeah, right. I, I grew up playing a lot of sports. Um, Just as, as a kid, but really, I did a lot of wrestling and a lot of baseball, traveled all over the country. Um, you know, God bless my folks for, for driving me all over and, and, and footing the bills for, for those events.

But did a lot of that and now I've kind of transitioned that into the, uh, CrossFit space and it's kind of been a good, good changeover of all the sports, kind of the sport of fitness. Um, and, and do a lot of CrossFit. Also have a bit, uh, pretty good passion for CU sports. Mm-hmm. My folks were really involved.

My dad went there, I went there. And so it's, it's become a lot more interesting lately. Yep. To Coach Prime, to be a CU fan, but it's a, uh, it's, it's fun to go. We've traveled to a lot of the games and go to, uh, both football, basketball, uh, women's basketball right now is real hot for cu so it's been a, it's been a good time to, uh, to follow them.

Awesome. And I think it's gonna be great for our audience to really understand what you do from a project manager standpoint, because if we think about our audience, there's a lot of people that are just starting on their own. They're doing every piece of the puzzle themselves. But then they're also scaling up like us.

And I know a huge way that we help grow the business is when I was able to step out of running projects and you've got this great expertise, but just tell our audience what you do kind of on a day-to-day basis of running these projects. Okay. And the, the first thing with running the projects is finding the bright projects.

And, um, I'm sure we'll talk about that on, on other podcasts. But the first part is agents bringing us deals, clients bringing us deals. I'll look at the rehabs. Address what we think that rehab budget's gonna be. Kind of give them a number so they know what to offer on these properties and what we're gonna look like at the end of the road.

So that's kind of before the project starts. Once we get under contract, it's run in the day-to-day of the, of the project. Whether that's managing, um, general contractors, ordering materials, keeping a budget sheet, um, looking at all of our expenses. Uh, managing the timeline through monday.com, which I'm sure we'll talk about later.

Yeah. Keeping things on schedule, um, and just checking in, uh, two to three times to the project. Keeping eyes on it and. Communicating with the general contractor on a almost a daily basis, whether that's text message, WhatsApp, uh, phone calls, just how are things going, how are your crews looking? Cuz they run into to issues as well.

Yeah. Um, so it's just managing those and then at the end, getting everything kind of wrapped up, pretty ready to go through staging and hopefully this sale of the property. Yeah. Perfect. Um, so let's really kind of jump into, one of the things that we really look for is we actually have a questionnaire.

And it seems probably to some people, maybe a little bit of an overkill, but we wanna know what their experience is all about. So maybe talk a little bit about what that questionnaire is and, and that process of, um, working with our contractors that we're with on a day-to-day basis. Right. Generally what we wanna do with the contractors is get a feel for their capacity.

Um, so we'll ask 'em questions like, you know, how many are on your regular work crew? Cause a lot of general contractors have their regular laborers, but they also sub out things, try to get a feel for what they don't want to do. I don't wanna put a contractor in a foundation situation then they're not comfortable with.

Mm-hmm. So what do, what won't they do? What will they do? Where are they really good? Where do they need some help? Um, also looking at things like past projects. I want to know. Where have you worked before? Can you do two or three projects? Are you more comfortable in a condo as opposed to single? You know, family residents, um, look at their W nine s.

Try to get those things in right. Their insurance. Get all those ducks in a row, their website, their contact information. It seems silly that we have to do that, but. Those are things that can, can get real sticky later on in a situation. So we try to get all those check references, make phone calls and see if, you know, they're dependable, if they're not skipping town on you and do doing the things that they're supposed to do.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, the other thing that we kind of jump into is once you figure out who we're gonna use and, and vetting them with the questionnaire form that you just talked about. It's really bidding jobs. And so, uh, I'm gonna talk to you about the type of contractors we get into here in a second.

But really, I wanna set the stage for our audience to talk about how do we bid jobs. And so what we're doing once Travis has identified this is the right contractor for us to work with, is we're gonna create a one page budget. And that gives the contractors the ability where if we're talking to three different contractors, they're doing what we call kind of that classic apples to apples type bidding cuz you don't want to walk around.

Everybody has different perceptions of what you want to do, but if you hand 'em that piece of paper for your scope of work, it's gonna standardize what contractor A versus contractor B is getting back to us with. The other thing is we've got kind of a term that we really like called push pricing. And so Travis is great with.

Handing them that sheet and then giving them a rough guideline to say, we've already done the math, we've already looked at the property. We've already budgeted it. If it's ideally before we purchase it, we know hopefully we're, we're going to put into it from a rehab perspective. So we will give them a guideline of, let's say a $5,000 spread.

So we'll go in and Travis will say, Hey, we think that this is gonna be an eight week project. It's gonna be between 75 and 80 grand. Here's the scope of work that helps them bid out the project efficiently. And, and then we really want to be clear about what we're doing as a company versus what the contractor is doing.

So that really kind of sets the stage for how do we bid these projects. Um, but I would really love for you to tell us a little bit about kind of the different types of contractors along that big spectrum of experience. So maybe give our audience kind of those key points about different types of GCs or contractors in general, maybe.

Right, right. When, when we're looking at flipping houses, you're gonna come across all kinds of different. Experts or novices or what they're strong at or what they're weak at. So kind of the, the categories we look at subcontractors, contractors, and, and full GCs. A subcontractor is gonna be just a one trade guy.

He may be a countertop guy, he may be an HVAC guy, a classic, you know, electricians and plumbers are just your subs. Generally that's all they're gonna do. Mm-hmm. They're not gonna do your drywall, they're not gonna paint for you. They're not gonna lay flooring. So those guys are good to have. But if you are managing all the subs, then you're the general contractor, right?

And the project manager and the investor. And that's a lot of hats to wear. Um, the next step up from that is a contractor. He may do a lot of his own work. Uh, but he may have laborers that he has underneath him. He may not be a licensed gc or he may not be an expert in one area, but he's a handyman type.

He can get the job done, he can do small projects repairs, he can do some, some callbacks, those type of things. The third category is just the full general contractor. This is gonna be generally one or two guys that are managing. A variety of subs managing a variety of contractors. They probably have several projects going on at once.

They have two or three plumbers that they can call on if they need to for a different project, or two or three HVAC guys, and they're gonna try to keep everything under their umbrella. Um, You know, the advantage to that is we don't have to deal with so many people. If, if I have to call, you know, Felipe, the GC and tell him, Hey, we need this done, he's gonna contact his subs and do it, it saves us some phone calls and it really allows us to scale and have multiple projects going on at once.

Um, that doesn't always work that way, but generally that's kind of what we're looking at between those three categories. Yeah. And so, When we run things, kind of the elevation way we were helping to share with our audience of, to your point, and I loved how you define what is the kind of subcontractor, contractor, and general contractor, we definitely find that we're giving up anywhere between probably five and $10,000 worth of margin.

By using general contractors, but maybe you wanna share with our audience why we use general contractors in trying to run many things at once and where things kind of come out in the wash at the end of the year versus you in there and being the PM or, or the gc, I should say, yourself and, and the pros and cons maybe of.

Spending more and, and using somebody who can run everything or you being kind of in the weeds every single day on every project. Right. With, with advantage of general contractors, say we have two or three projects going on at once. I may be on a Tuesday at 1 23 Main Street, I can meet with the GC and he probably has several different things that we need to talk about, whether that's plumbing, electrical, drywall, paint.

I can talk to him about all those things while I'm there. And he can go talk to his subs. Then on, on a Wednesday, I can go to the next address, do the same thing with either the same GC or a different gc. If I was managing all the subs myself, I would've to be at that project talking to four or five different people and coordinating them and their materials and getting them going.

Then go into the next job and doing that. So I'd have probably five times the amount of the conversations I e, five times the amount of time. And it would eat up my day to, to be a GC and project manager. So we do give up a little bit of profit on that. But the thought is I can make one phone call, one text, and the GC can handle it from there and and manage his crews accordingly.

When we have multiple jobs going with that same GC two, it's good because he can delegate. Today we're gonna have the plumber at this address, we're gonna have the drywall or at this address. It's the same general contractor. He's dividing his crew up for us and he knows where his guys are, where they're located.

Where the materials may be, and he manages sort of the logistics of, of that side of the business. Hey investors, thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Raising the Flipping Bar. I'm Derek Marlin, your host, and today sponsors the Elevation Academy. The Academy is an intensive one day training session where we teach you every single step of our system to increase your profits, find great properties, save you time.

Avoid costly mistakes. Essentially it is your roadmap and it's 105 step system to your fix and flip success blueprint. So sign up today. We've got an academy coming up in a couple weeks. We only are taking 20 guests and we've actually got a money back guarantee. So if you try our system, you put in the old college try and you don't find it's the right benefit, we'll refund every penny of your money.

But we'd love to have you join us for the Elevation Academy. We've got info in our show notes, and we'd love to have you join us. Yeah, and Travis brings up a great point that I wanna share with you guys as our audience is there is that sweet spot of how many projects do you want one co company or one contractor doing?

We find that once you hit two or three, that's kind of a nice sweet spot so that to your point, you've got that familiarity. You've got somebody who's not kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Because you have, um, you know, know where those, those workers are going. But also when you go up 5, 6, 7, 8, you know, cruise all at once, I think that's when you do Rob Peter to pay Paul.

And, and so I think it's really important for our audience to understand, you know, again, everybody's different. Every business is different, every market's different. But we kind of find that two to three. Uh, project as the sweet spot, and then we also really ramp people up. So we do condos and town homes and we try contractors out and kind of see how good they are, and then they kind of graduate, you know, it's like the minor leagues to the big leagues, if you will.

Um, maybe talk a little bit about where you feel comfortable of knowing somebody's doing a good job and then giving them a shot for. It for new business? Yeah, I think it's a, it's a good point to the, the minor leagues. To major leagues. A condo is a small footprint. Generally. There's not gonna be foundations, there's not gonna be a lot of hvac, there's not gonna be a lot of the complexity in a condo.

It's gonna be, you know, a kitchen, a bath or two, a bedroom or two. So getting that sort of experience under, under their belt, one or two of those, cuz uh, some GCs may be really good at the beginning or really good at the demo, are really good at. Painting, but when they put it all together, they kind of fall apart.

Yeah. So I, I really like to see 'em go through a project all the way to the end and then get through inspection. Mm-hmm. As we know. That's very important. Yeah. And then try 'em out another one cuz then they know our system the second time around. So the second time around, they're familiar with everything we do.

Our systems, how we're doing, draws all of our finishes. They should be much faster and more efficient that second time around. And then we can kind of get an idea, can they do two houses? Can they do a whole house? Can they do, you know, a 3000 square foot house? Yeah. We generally know by that second condo where they're gonna be and kind of what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Perfect. And, and one of the things we're gonna dive a little bit deeper into in about three or four more episodes from now is the software that we use and, and really Travis, you're an expert at it, and it's called monday.com. Um, so I would love for you to kind of tell our audience a little bit about maybe just the three main sections of how we run projects, and then most importantly, how we are able to keep that as the most efficient way to run these jobs.

You're really on behalf of the contractors. So maybe give our audience kind of those top three sections and we'll do a deeper dive a couple episodes from now. Yeah, we have it sort of divided up sort of our, um, way we do it is project planning and that's gonna be our sewer scopes, planning our budget out, doing the bid process, selecting the contractors.

Getting our timeline expectations down. So we have steps in that, that, that are checks and balances for, for us, that we know if once we get to that point, project kickoff date, we're ready to go with the dumpster. We're ready to go with the first check. We're ready to hit the ground running. The next part is just managing the whole project.

It's, you know, when is kitchen ca or when are kitchen cabinets gonna go in? When are the countertops gonna go in? When are the faucets gonna go in? When do, um, we expect floors to be finished? That gives us an idea of, one, our timeline, and it keeps our agents ready for the listing. The staging, when to market it, when to sell it.

The other section of of monday.com that I find very useful is the materials ordering. We have basically all of our materials listed in there, and then we have working on it, ordered whatever it is, and I can manage, oh, I need to order syncs, or I need to order vanities, or I need to order polls and their comments in those sections where I can update.

Either you or I can update our agents, or I can just write a note to myself. Hey, We're five poles short. We need to order more poles or look in our garage, see if we have 'em, those type of things, but that material ordering. That way we don't get to the end of the road and the GC says, I'm ready to install fixtures, and we don't have any.

And then we're in a scramble, and then you're paying extra money to get it shipped to you. But that just keeps me on tracking. It's easy to look at it from a. 10,000 foot perspective cuz it'll say green if it's done, or say red if it's not. Yeah. So it's really simple to to do and it's good on the PC and it's good on your phone.

So it's really an efficient way to, to manage the whole thing from start to finish. Yeah. And we'll definitely dive into that. We'll do almost some tutorials for the rest of our audience out there. It's just such a great piece of software and we've created, actually, they call them boards, but we've got about 105 step process to show you every little different nitty gritty detail of how to run these fix and flips.

And then kind of conversely, which is obviously, you know, the focus of today's episode is finding the right contractor. And so a lot of times we'll know whether it's good or bad if that person is willing to not necessarily follow every single step. Cuz again, we kind of do that on their behalf, but we wanna show them how organized we are, how detail oriented we are.

Um, maybe you can talk a little bit about. Contractors being nervous to work with us as investors because they've probably been burned in the past with working, you know, with those damn investors that aren't organized, that aren't paying on time, but maybe just. Tell our audience about we're, it's a two-way street of interviewing.

You know, we wanna find the right person for us to work with, but we wanna sell them and say, Hey, we're organized in what we're doing. So it's a good marriage for the long haul, right? Yeah. A a couple ways we stay organized. One obviously is the monday.com. What I'll generally do is show 'em our board. Yeah.

And say, listen, if you do X, Y, and Z, you're gonna get your second draw payment. And then once that second drop payment's done, you need to focus on getting the kitchen cabinets installed, the counters, the basin case, the paint, and then you're gonna get your third draw. So they're not up in the air GCs.

They need that money, they need that cash flow to pay their crews. Yep. This gives them peace of mind. Hey, once I get this done, I know I'm gonna get a good check. And there's no guesswork. It's not like we're gonna come in and nitpick 'em and say, well, we want you to do this, this, and this. It's cut and dry.

You meet these guidelines, we'll pay you your check. And that gives them a lot of, you know, like I said, peace of mind to to know that they're gonna be there. The other way that we stay organized is all of our fixture and finished packages are all laid out. And I generally, when during the interview process, I show him that too and say, we're not gonna him and haw out a kitchen faucet for three weeks.

We're not gonna order some crazy thing from Italy that's gonna take forever to get in. So they know they're gonna have the products there when they need 'em. They're gonna be easy to install, they're gonna be stuff they're familiar with. They're not some crazy brand that they're gonna have to read up on that's gonna be a, a delta or a mowing or something that their plumber's comfortable with.

So they know those things are coming. We also do hanging file folders, uh, every project that we work on that have. All the plans in there, all the cabinet layouts, all the change orders, all the materials are flyers. Everything's there for them and their crew. Yeah, because some of their crews may not be in those early meetings.

They don't know me necessarily at the very beginning. So all the instructions are basically there for them if they need 'em. That way their crew's not guessing and not in the dark. So as we meet with GCs, 99% of 'em feel we are the most organized, the most ready to go. Um, investors they've ever worked with, and I've had GCs tell me they would like to take our stuff and give it to their other investors because it would make their jobs a lot easier.

Right. And, and that just speaks to, you know, what you've created, what the whole company's created on being organized and kind of nerding out on, on stand on track. And it gives the GCs, you know, a good, a good sort of blueprint on how to do it. Yeah. That way they're not. Flying by the seat of their pants either.

Yeah. And obviously we could go on, this episode could probably be another hour to two hours long, but I kind of wanna leave the audience with three key takeaways and um, maybe talk a little bit about our onsite meetings and then how you, you talked about the folder, so I think we're good there. But mostly just kind of how you run it from an onsite meeting basis and then the change orders and kind of touching base every week.

Maybe give our audience that, that background. Right. We generally like to meet. One to three times a week on a project. Um, something in the early week by myself and the gc, and then usually Derek and myself and the GC will meet later in the week on the pro on the project. And we'll use that monday.com board and say, Hey, well we're supposed to have this, this, and this done.

Is it done? I'll take pictures. I'll write up a report. I'll generally use my chicken scratch on, on my iPad and then type it up for 'em at the end of the day so that way they have documentation. We talked about these things. We've set these dates, we need to order this material. Um, if there are any issues, we'll outline 'em in that kind of recap.

Um, mention the file folders, all that stuff's available on the file folders. I also have a three ring binder with everything, so there's a hard copy in case something went haywire on the software. And then the change orders, we try to do change orders. If it comes, we need to address it. We need to get a price for it, we need to get a daze that it's gonna extend the project.

We don't need to do the change order. And then surprise at the end, there's $5,000 every week at the end of the week if a GC has a change order, he needs to let us know about that. And then what we'll do is take a few of those change orders, clump 'em together, and on their next draw, if those change orders have been done, we'll pay 'em that.

We're not gonna pay for a change order up front without them being done right. So we, we try to keep that really organized cuz. As early investors and early people get into this, they know that there's always a surprise at the end. Oh yeah, here's your bill. Plus there's 20,000 in change orders, and we never wanna get to that stand.

We never want to, to get to that. So we discuss those things, um, every week. And then the meetings are always just good touchpoints to see what's going on. See you if the work crews are there. Um, having 'em at the end of the week. Make sure they're working out through end of the week. You know, occasionally we'll buy 'em lunch on a Friday just to make sure we're, we're getting all the work for 'em and, and their workers.

Love it. I mean, you, you buy lunch for, for one work crew and they, they love you forever. I mean, it's as simple as Domino's Pizza and they think you're great. Yeah. So those, those type of touchpoints on a project weekly is, is super important. Yeah, and I think Travis does a great job in running our projects is that we really want, as a two-way street, we want to be able to interview and kind of vet those contractors up front.

Then we want that good working relationship over time. And so change order. Essentially what that is, just to make sure our audience kind of has a, a good firm grasp of what we're talking about, is you've got your existing contract. Let's say it's a hundred thousand dollars worth of work. We're gonna do it for eight weeks, and we've got, you know, 50 pieces of the puzzle that we've got clearly outlined in our scope of work exchange order is when something comes up and we rip down a, a wall in a bathroom and, and find out that the plumbing that we thought was okay is actually shot.

And so we've gotta change the plumbing. That should dictate a change order, which means there's extra costs. And there's extra time. But to Travis's point where I think a lot of investors go sideways and then it's not fair to our contractors either, which is they're doing extra work, there's taking more time.

So then you need to know, okay, we gave you a specific end date and we just need to move the goalpost or move the measuring stick a little bit to be fair. And then you need to know that week, how much is it gonna cost before the work happens? Cuz where we get into this big, you know, um, arm wrestling match is you do extra work and there's costs associated with that, but you need to know how much is it.

Sometimes you have to do them like the plumbing example, but a lot of times when we're doing our projects, there's certain things that you might not have to do. It can be kind of an optional change order. And we need to know where's the market going? And if a contractor is thinking in his mind or her mind, yeah, to your point, well, I did a hundred gram worth of work and I'm gonna give him a bill for 20,000 bucks, and we aren't prepared for that.

We might have overshot it and it's obviously coming directly out of our pocket, and then your contractor's pissed at you. And it's just, it's, it's, you know, it's the opposite of a win-win. So for us, that's super, super critical is those weekly check-ins and those change orders that are assessed every single week.

Are super, super important. Um, so I, I think that that gives our audience really a sense of how to find the right contractor, some of those really kind of deep dive tricks and tips so that it's equal and fair in both sides. Um, is there anything else that you want to kind of leave the audience with as we wrap up this last episode on just finding the right contractor and, and anything that we maybe haven't addressed?

Um, I think just that two-way street, I think building those relationships, I mean, You're not gonna be best friends with all of them, but I think them knowing you're looking out for them, especially on their draws or especially on their workers, they know that you're taking care of 'em and they're gonna take care of you.

Um, I think we, you, you see the HGTV ones where they're screaming and yelling and hating each other. That's not gonna be a good long-term situation. So I always try to, you know, Learn something about the GCs. You know, talk about other things outside of work and build those relationships because then they're more willing to help you.

I'm more willing to help them, and it's, it's just a more enjoyable workspace, and we're gonna get a better product at the end of the day if they, if they come to work. Begrudgingly. We're not gonna get as good a product if they come to work knowing, I like working for this company, we're gonna get a better product.

So I always try to think of how to foster those sort of goodwill, um, emotions out of, out of those co GCs every time we touch base with them. Awesome. Um, well, we're super excited to have everybody tune in about finding the right contractor. The way we always end episodes where we've got a guest is I would love to learn a little bit more about you, Travis, like if you weren't in the real estate investing space, what do you think you'd be doing?

Um, something in sports. Okay. I, I, I don't know, uh, exactly what, whether that'd be. Broadcasting or, uh, owning a CrossFit gym, but something, something in the sports world I think would be super fun. And, uh, that's probably where I would go. Okay. Nice. Well, thank you so much for having, uh, thank you. We're really pumped to have you here.

It's been great to, to have you on raising the flipping bar. And we'll catch you guys on the flip side. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Flipping Bar. My goal is to help you successfully and profitably redevelop properties in competitive markets, and I encourage you to listen to some other episodes on this podcast.

If you're a new investor, make sure you subscribe or follow Raising the Flipping Bar on your favorite podcast platform. And make sure to share this episode with someone you know would enjoy it. Head to Fix and flip.show to stay up to date with future episodes of raising the Flipping bar. My name's Derek Marlin, and I'll catch you on the flip side.