Going Big By Going Small: Why I'm Investing in Residential Assisted Living Homes with Max Keller

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Welcome to raising the flipping bar, the go to podcast for aspiring and seasoned real estate investors.

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I'm your host, Derek Marlin, and I'm the CEO of Elevation.

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We're a real estate investment company based right here in Denver, Colorado.

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We'll dive into smart investment strategies, market insights, and essential tips for scaling your real estate ventures.

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Whether you're making your first investment or your hundredth investment, this podcast is your blueprint for success in the ever evolving world of real estate investing.

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Get ready to elevate your real estate game and begin your journey with me.

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I'm super excited to have a very experienced investor, very experienced entrepreneur person.

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Who's got a ton of real estate experience.

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Welcome Mr.

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Max Keller to raise in the flipping bar.

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All right, let's go.

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Absolutely excited.

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Love the energy.

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We're going to talk about a lot of stuff on this episode, but we've got some kind of crazy parallels.

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I'd love for you to share with our audience, where you are geographically, cause we've got some interesting parallels there, and then we're going to talk about a ton of marketing, but maybe give us a little bit of background to kind of where you're at physically and where you're recording.

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Yeah.

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So right now I'm in my office in Southlake, Texas, the biggest one was getting into UT Austin because I was, I'm dyslexic and I didn't know I had it till I was an adult.

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And so, I worked really hard.

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I made terrible grades in high school.

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I didn't really even know why.

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Basically went to community college, worked really, really hard, got into UT business school.

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So that was a huge milestone.

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And then the next one was getting married.

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Cause I think if you have a good partner in life, you can go so much further.

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Um, so that, that was huge.

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I have seven children, so that helped provide a lot of motivation.

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Every three years I was getting some new motivation to go out and work hard.

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Okay.

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But I basically just did some corporate jobs out of college.

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They're really boring.

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Became a teacher cause my wife is a teacher and I love kids.

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If you have seven kids, you probably like kids.

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Yeah.

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I hope so.

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So I taught algebra for seven years.

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Loved it.

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It was kind of like the military.

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The kids called it a prison and I could see that.

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I was coach Keller.

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I was like the power lifting fun, serious, hardcore coach.

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I just learned a lot.

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I learned about discipline.

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I learned about focus.

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I learned about being on a time schedule, but I just wasn't making any money.

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I left, started flipping houses in 2015, flipped about 120 houses and really saw that the key to making this business work was the marketing.

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And so I learned the marketing.

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When you learn a valuable skill and you have a network, people notice it.

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And so wrote a book, introduced some other people to the book, created a business around it.

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It just kind of kept going from there.

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It builds over time and it's just about taking that first step, but the biggest thing was.

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having some success in something that I struggled with.

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Probably when I was 35, I learned, I found out I was dyslexic and I got with a coach and she helped me learn how to read better.

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And now I read a lot and I wrote all these books and it's crazy.

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Like you would have never guessed in a million years.

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It's just kind of a journey and a process but those are the biggest milestones is getting married, learning how to read, getting into college, learning that was kind of a waste and just starting this real estate journey, which is cyclical.

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Yeah.

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So that means you have to kind of pivot at times that doesn't mean you're a job hopper.

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It's like, you can't just keep doing the same thing that.

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What's going on in oh nine, that opportunity is not here right now.

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So being willing to pivot, be only being willing to learn new stuff.

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You know, I have an operations coach that's like in his late fifties, and then I have a prompt engineering AI coach that's 23, I'm 43.

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That's how the world works.

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You're going to learn from people who are younger.

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You're going to learn from people who are.

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You know, older, you'll be the new kid in town.

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At some point, you'll have some skins on the wall and you'll be teaching people stuff.

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It's just.

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Stay in it.

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So those have been some of the big milestones that have been a lot of fun to see.

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That's awesome.

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And I'm curious on, you mentioned a prompt AI coach.

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What the heck is that?

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Tell me about that.

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Well, I've been using a lot of my marketing because I'm a chief market officer for a large, real estate investment company.

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And then I still have my own publishing business that I do.

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And my team does most of the work in it, but I saw pretty quickly that this is a powerful tool.

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Jeff Bezos says, don't try to resist the future, lean into the future.

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And so I started dabbling in it and I found a course.

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I think it helps to be curious.

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So if you're watching this, you know, you're curious, you're trying to learn something, get better.

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And, this gentleman put out this course and I met him and he's just really, really talented.

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And then I've been, friends with them for about a year and a half and I probably do.

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Probably two to three hours a day of my CMO job that I do four days a week is, prompt engineering, which is unusual, but it'll become more usual as time goes on because basically how it's going to work.

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It's the most powerful tool ever created in human history.

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And people who know how to use it are still going to be around, but people, whatever that profession is, who don't know how to use it, are just going to get totally wiped out.

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So I'm just staying ahead of the curve and I'm just, I like it.

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So it's fun for me.

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Yeah.

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And it's, it's going to be great timing because I just, I try to back to back my episodes and do a solo one and then a guest one.

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And so we just talked about deal sourcing on our solo episode.

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And I was chatting with our project manager, Travis earlier, and I think he brought up a great point, which is.

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AI is just not Google.

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You know, you don't just throw in some stupid term and then hope that you get feedback.

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I think you're right.

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That prompting and that coaching and that nuance is going to be so critical.

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Real estate is such an interesting space because I feel like we're behind the times.

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Many times on the marketing front.

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And so this is something we have the opportunity to get ahead of.

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So I think you're doing an amazing job and that's something we need to lean way more into to help our real estate businesses.

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Yeah.

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Something good.

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No, I mean, we prompt people all the time to prompt or to make a request.

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Like, that's what, Hey, can you come and, do you have any kids?

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I've got, man, that's a side note.

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I am impressed.

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I only have three kiddos and I can barely hang on.

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And so seven, I'm going to just go home and tell my wife, like, we should chill.

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I'm impressed.

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Seven.

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Yeah.

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I've got three teenagers.

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The real, I'm with you on that.

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I got mine, 17, 15, 13.

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And the real thing story is I have five girls in a row and then I had our first boy and then we had another boy about a year ago and we done, but I had to have five girls in a row.

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And then, and just don't give up.

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Yeah, we had that boy and then we had another, I told my wife, I'm like, man, we got to even it up five and five because we're on a hot streak.

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And she said maybe with somebody else.

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So that ain't going to happen.

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But I'll say it like this for the prompting stuff.

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You can get all in the weeds on it.

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Look, you guys stay cashflow positive.

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You have to do something that's going to be consistent to make enough income to have a gap.

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Like in the book profit first, you want to expand the gap between what you make and what you spend.

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It's hard to do.

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I didn't do it at first.

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I never had any money.

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So when I started flipping houses, I was flipping out and, you know, but now I've taken a little bit more measured approach, but, um, but yeah, the older kids and having a big family, it's a lot of fun.

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It's a lot of work.

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I've been teaching them prompting.

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And what I wanted to say about that was, is like, like, there's a way that we talk and there's a way that you talk with the language models that if you just kind of learn some basic techniques and some basic ways to format and communicate, you can get a lot with it.

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And most people still don't really understand what to do.

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At all.

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So it's just another tool that's making smart people even more rich than people who aren't as smart or curious, unfortunately.

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But it could be a great equalizer for people who, you know, struggle to figure things out.

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It can be a great tool, but we're, we're going to be augmenting quite a bit over time.

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It's just another tool to use.

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No, I think that's super, super smart.

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Well, I want to kind of dip into your savior publishing business.

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Tell me a little bit about kind of how you made the transition from flipping houses, because I know you mentioned you've done over a hundred houses, maybe give our audience a little context first of when you were doing flipping in your career and then how you transitioned into the savior publishing business.

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2015 in Dallas, Fort Worth, I could pick up houses for my first house in Arlington, Texas.

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I picked up for like 45, 000 and I think I wholesaled it for 65 Wow.

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And you know, that house is worth 250 now, but you know how it is.

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I mean, that's everywhere.

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That's not really a big story.

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The story was, is that I just kept trying different marketing techniques.

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What I noticed was, is, No matter how much marketing I sent out, it was just a timing bubble.

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I just had to be there at the exact moment because all of my marketing that I was paying for, whether it was yellow letters, postcards, whatever, it was just getting thrown away as we're getting ignored.

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I had to be there at the exact nanosecond that somebody said, today, I'm going to sell my house.

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There's just more and more options for people to sell their house for more money.

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And I was like, this is just going to vaporize.

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I mean, it still might be around a little bit.

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The most ninja marketers are still going to be able to skim off the top, but the total size of this market is just not, there's just a lot of people who can pay more and that I'm willing to pay.

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And it's easier for people to find them every day.

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So.

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What happened was is I had to pick a niche because I actually wasn't having that much fun working with people.

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Clients who, you know, I had to bail somebody out of jail one time to get him to sign the paperwork for a house in Grand Prairie.

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I mean, I'm like real stuff.

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And I'm like, these people, this is just not professional.

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I don't like this at all.

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I can't have my kids do this business and come to these neighborhoods I'm in.

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And I'm like, I'm just not feeling this.

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So my wife encouraged me to not quit and, figure out what I needed to do.

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So what I did is I made a list of my favorite clients that I liked working with.

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And these were people who.

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When I showed up at their house, they saw me as a, as a consultant, as an advisor, not as a salesperson, people who actually were coachable, just nice people to work with.

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And what I noticed was I was probably on deal 50 at this point.

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Okay.

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And I noticed that my best customers were seniors by far.

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My grandma helped take care of me when I was younger.

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And then I took care of her.

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I was the grandson that took her to church.

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I was on her checking account back when you paid with checks and all that.

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So she's my best friend.

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You know, I haven't found, I love my wife, but I mean, I haven't found a replacement for my grandma.

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She lived to be about 90 and she was always getting hit up by salespeople just trying to sell her stuff.

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I don't want to do that.

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So what I did is I, I was just teaching the seniors, all the stuff that they didn't know, all the stuff that these slick salespeople didn't want to tell them.

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I had a customer who actually, I helped, I basically bought their house.

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This was in Richland Hills, Texas.

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I bought the house.

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The adult children are like 60 and they're like, you know, you, you've helped our family out a ton.

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Have you ever thought about writing a book about this?

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And, I was like, no, like I would be like in high school, I would have been picked last to read a book, let alone write a book.

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But then, you know, I thought about it.

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I was like, that's kind of a good idea.

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I could go at the time I was the guy in my little three cities I was buying in.

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That was the guy who knew a lot about senior housing.

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But if I wrote a book about it.

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You know, I could maybe be the guy who wrote the book on senior housing.

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It just positions different in the marketplace.

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And so, um, So I did that.

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I wrote a book.

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It took about two, 300 hours if I had known how hard it was going to be.

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I probably wouldn't have kept doing it.

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But my first book, which was this one right here, home to home, the step by step senior housing guide.

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It was basically just like.

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All the ways to sell your house is written to seniors, you know, homeowners pros and cons of each, all the ways to stay in your house, the types of senior housing that's out there and I just start giving them away to people.

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And the response was astronomical.

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I couldn't.

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I've never seen a tool that I could give somebody the book, where I go from being unknown to really trust it in such a short period of time.

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I've never seen anything even close.

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So I was using it to, get new leads.

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One of the things that we were doing is, people call us, they say, Hey, we got some of your marketing.

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We're interested in you coming out to look at our house to buy.

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And I'd say, Hey, do you have a copy of our newest book?

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And they're like your book.

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I'm like, yeah, chapter three is all the ways to sell your house.

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Pros and cons of each.

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If I send you a copy of my book.

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Before I come over to your house, will you at least read chapter three?

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Cause if you can, then I'll send it to you.

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And if not, I can't come over.

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They're like, sure, and so when I sent them the book show up really different and, they're not calling other people.

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I noticed I was getting a lot more exclusive deals and I didn't want to ask why.

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But I kind of did.

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So I said, Hey, you know, I noticed like, not really looking at anybody else, but there's 400, 000 million people in Dallas that do the same thing as I do.

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Why, why are you not calling anybody else?

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And one of my customers said, why would I call somebody else when I have the person who wrote the book on this?

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And that's when I really realized, I was in some real estate masterminds and my friends.

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My first friend, Dewey Nguyen in like, Winter Haven, Florida.

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Do you think there's seniors in Winter Haven, Florida?

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Yeah, randomly.

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I a hundred percent know that because we have a little lot.

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My wife, her grandma lived in Winter Haven.

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And so, yes, I've been there.

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I've probably been to the, all the kick in senior restaurants.

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So yes, there's probably not many young people in Winter Haven.

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Not as much, a lot of cream gravy.

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But, yeah.

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So anyway, so he said, Hey, can I use your book?

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And I was like, what do you mean?

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We figured out that in most, in a lot of other circles having a licensed book is kind of a thing, but it wasn't as much for this niche.

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And so I started licensing the book.

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Folks are out there using it to teach people stuff and, also grow their business.

00:13:31.365 --> 00:13:33.004
They don't have to write a whole book themselves.

00:13:33.014 --> 00:13:43.804
So, anyways, we've helped about between four book systems, wrote some more books, did that, and had about 360 authors that we've helped today in the last five years.

00:13:43.815 --> 00:13:47.784
So that turned into its whole thing that I didn't even know was going to happen.

00:13:47.784 --> 00:13:49.664
And, just one thing leads to another.

00:13:50.184 --> 00:13:50.465
Yeah.

00:13:50.465 --> 00:13:55.004
The cool thing about that is that's something that our company has been doing for two years now.

00:13:55.034 --> 00:13:57.855
And what I really love that you guys helped us out with is you're right.

00:13:57.865 --> 00:14:05.625
You've got all of the meat and potatoes of the book, but we've got kind of unique model where we partner with people and we flip their house for them and share the profit.

00:14:05.625 --> 00:14:07.914
And so we say, Hey, can we just add a separate chapter?

00:14:08.205 --> 00:14:09.445
And your team was like, yeah, great.

00:14:09.455 --> 00:14:10.384
Just edit it up.

00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:12.470
We'll smack it in there and we're good to go.

00:14:12.470 --> 00:14:16.299
So we just appreciate how you guys let us, modify it without completely changing it.

00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.700
It's been a great tool in our, marketing and you're right.

00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.759
When we go sit in those living rooms, I think some people are not willing to do that.

00:14:22.769 --> 00:14:29.154
They just want to be faceless and nameless and hope that somebody, you know, Does an SEO click and they magically get a lead.

00:14:29.315 --> 00:14:31.134
We're the same way as your team is.

00:14:31.134 --> 00:14:37.995
We love sitting in the living room with either adult children or grandma and grandpa, because it's just, it's amazing stories.

00:14:38.004 --> 00:14:44.995
I mean, when somebody hugs you when you buy their house and most people are telling you to F off, like that's a nice dichotomy.

00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:45.990
That's why I did it.

00:14:45.990 --> 00:14:50.929
And that's why I'm moving towards in my next phase here, moving into, opening my own senior home.

00:14:50.929 --> 00:15:01.559
So the next house that I flip, six to 16 little ladies are going to be moving into it because I just love working with the seniors and there's such a need coming up that if we have time, we'll talk about it.

00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.504
But the, you want to do businesses where.

00:15:03.855 --> 00:15:12.365
They can stick around a little bit cause it takes time to spin up a team and the operations necessary for you to not have to do all the work by yourself.

00:15:12.414 --> 00:15:16.245
You want to have a tailwind, and, the demographics are favorable towards that.

00:15:16.264 --> 00:15:19.434
And like I said, if you have a heart to help, but you have to have that stuff.

00:15:19.445 --> 00:15:21.115
If all you want to do is just make cash.

00:15:21.470 --> 00:15:22.370
And be transactional.

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:25.059
That's cool, but that wouldn't really work as good.

00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:26.559
The seniors, they need more than that.

00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:27.500
Yeah.

00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:38.019
And I think something that'd be super helpful for our audience to hear is your timeline of how long it took you to get going and how long you felt like you had to be consistent in the senior book space.

00:15:38.049 --> 00:15:44.740
Because I think a lot of folks that we talk to and we do some consulting, it's like, they say, Oh man, I sent postcards for two months and it didn't work.

00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:46.440
And then they just change and change and change.

00:15:46.764 --> 00:15:54.684
We talk about going way deep, maybe give us our audience a timeline of like, how hard and how long did you have to really work at this before you felt like you got some good traction?

00:15:54.904 --> 00:15:55.205
Yeah.

00:15:55.205 --> 00:16:04.845
The technical term is cash conversion cycle, but maybe this is called the financial term, but we talk about a lot around here, but yeah, it's from when you put out time or money, but usually money, how soon are you going to get it back?

00:16:04.845 --> 00:16:08.764
How long does it take from somebody to when they find out about you to be their customer?

00:16:09.154 --> 00:16:12.245
And I found that different lead sources, it varies.

00:16:12.254 --> 00:16:22.044
So like here at this real estate company, we track, we get leads from 15 different sources and we track all of them and they all have a different cash conversion cycle, but you have to know what it is.

00:16:22.174 --> 00:16:22.804
It varies.

00:16:22.924 --> 00:16:24.945
There's sort of, you're planting some seeds.

00:16:25.195 --> 00:16:33.490
We have some people that will go and meet and in a matter of, from when we first met them to a few weeks, we're doing business with them.

00:16:34.070 --> 00:16:37.960
There's some folks that we give our book to, they hold on to it for a long time.

00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:39.720
And then they call us at, six months.

00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.000
I had a lady who called that held on to my book for two years.

00:16:43.205 --> 00:16:52.585
And it's funny because back when there were just deals everywhere, and there was these, other, podcasts you'd listen to, and they would tell these stories that are fishtails.

00:16:52.634 --> 00:16:53.745
They wouldn't happen anymore.

00:16:53.955 --> 00:16:54.095
Yeah.

00:16:54.105 --> 00:17:04.569
But somebody talked about, I remember hearing the story of this guy, he's an investor and he sent, A letter or a postcard and the little old lady saved it, put it in the shoe box under her bed.

00:17:04.890 --> 00:17:11.779
And then when she passed away, the kids found it and the kids are very involved in the decision making for these seniors, even if they're still alive.

00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:19.970
And so I remember the story where they, went through her stuff and they found this and they called them the investor and said, Hey, we Our mom passed away.

00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:21.470
Are you still buying houses?

00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:22.250
Can you help us?

00:17:22.660 --> 00:17:23.900
And, that got me thinking.

00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:26.609
And I was like, I bet you if I gave them my book, they wouldn't throw it away.

00:17:26.660 --> 00:17:33.355
And so when you give somebody an autographed book, competes with all the other autographed books on their coffee table, it's kind of like a book.

00:17:33.615 --> 00:17:38.365
Which aren't very many, it's kind of really like a bandit sign, but it's in somebody's living room.

00:17:38.984 --> 00:17:40.375
That's why I get so many calls.

00:17:40.414 --> 00:17:45.214
What's interesting is that a lot of marketing, it's only valuable to you as the business owner.

00:17:45.464 --> 00:17:48.484
If somebody reads it and consumes it, because otherwise.

00:17:49.150 --> 00:17:54.869
They don't even know what it says, but what's cool about the book is because it has an actual physical property.

00:17:55.430 --> 00:18:02.460
Like when I get calls from people still today that have had my book for six months, a year or two years, I don't ask them how much of it they read.

00:18:02.529 --> 00:18:03.119
I don't know.

00:18:03.150 --> 00:18:05.920
I can't say they read every page of it, but they still have it.

00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:09.099
So some of it is just providing enough value.

00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:26.950
To where you're sticking around because you can't afford, I mean, you would, if you could just probably, you know, all the older houses, the houses that you buy, you would just send them a piece of mail and an email and a Facebook ad every single day forever, but you can't afford to do that.

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.150
So it's like, you have to kind of pick and choose.

00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:30.700
So I like the book.

00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:35.349
Because when I give it to somebody, which it costs me about five bucks.

00:18:36.390 --> 00:18:39.150
So, you know, five touch yellow letter campaigns, five bucks.

00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:41.930
It's like I could send them a five touch yellow letter campaign.

00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.200
They're going to throw it in the trash unless they have a need right now.

00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:48.529
And then they're going to call all the other people who sent them a postcard the same day.

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.059
And then I'm going to race over there and we're going to stand in line and take a number.

00:18:53.059 --> 00:18:59.410
And it's going to be the highest bidder, or I could for about the same amount, given my book, I show up totally different.

00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:00.720
Dan Kennedy talks about it.

00:19:00.789 --> 00:19:04.809
It's the difference between being a welcome guest and an annoying pest.

00:19:05.859 --> 00:19:08.740
So these are some of the things, so that it varies.

00:19:09.029 --> 00:19:11.430
But like I said, I like planting seeds.

00:19:11.450 --> 00:19:13.190
If you're going to do a business for a while.

00:19:13.569 --> 00:19:16.339
You don't always want to, be hunting.

00:19:16.339 --> 00:19:18.029
You want to be farming also.

00:19:18.460 --> 00:19:20.019
Now, and I think that's a really good way to say it.

00:19:20.049 --> 00:19:34.730
And maybe talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the senior space or, you know, people call it the older adult space now in general, because I think that's a huge thing of whether people should lean their marketing in or out of a sector that's either growing or to your point, changing or stagnating.

00:19:34.730 --> 00:19:41.589
What are you seeing as some of the more recent changes, especially since you're now developing housing on your own of just this industry overall.

00:19:41.589 --> 00:19:42.910
Cause I think it's key to look at that data.

00:19:43.529 --> 00:19:43.710
Yeah.

00:19:43.710 --> 00:20:09.640
Well, you know, the data shows that every day, 10, 000 people a day in America turned 65 and 4, 000 people a day turn 85 and that number's actually going to go up and 85, you know, I don't know the exact peak assisted living, but if somebody needs people go into assisted living because they can't live on their own, they don't go into assisted living because they want to, or they heard the food's good.

00:20:09.980 --> 00:20:11.210
They, that's just.

00:20:11.644 --> 00:20:12.515
They have to.

00:20:12.605 --> 00:20:18.875
And so there's a house that needs to be deposed, and there has something has to happen to it.

00:20:18.954 --> 00:20:20.615
They have to find another place to live.

00:20:20.644 --> 00:20:21.755
The baby boomers.

00:20:21.964 --> 00:20:23.214
I mean, this isn't a big mystery.

00:20:23.265 --> 00:20:28.595
It's the biggest group of, 20 year population and recorded human history.

00:20:28.694 --> 00:20:32.275
The oldest baby boomer is, 45, you know, born in 45.

00:20:32.295 --> 00:20:33.634
So next year they turn 80.

00:20:34.035 --> 00:20:36.865
Peak assisted living, I think is around 82, 83.

00:20:36.884 --> 00:20:39.154
So this is still early.

00:20:39.224 --> 00:20:41.144
Just like the prompt engineering stuff's early.

00:20:41.434 --> 00:20:47.375
So is this, like people are hearing about senior housing, but nothing like it's going to be the largest group.

00:20:47.750 --> 00:20:49.500
And it's, by the way, it's a worldwide thing.

00:20:49.509 --> 00:20:51.430
It isn't even just America is the whole world.

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:59.579
The largest population group ever in recorded human history are two years away from hitting assisted living age.

00:20:59.829 --> 00:21:02.849
And there'll be a wave of 20 years of it.

00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.130
So I'm 43.

00:21:04.819 --> 00:21:08.730
I like working and making money and helping people in no particular order.

00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:12.039
So this is just not, this is not a big mystery.

00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:14.079
And so is there a huge opportunity?

00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:16.609
Yeah, I can't think of one that's better.

00:21:16.940 --> 00:21:17.369
Can you?

00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:17.990
Yeah.

00:21:18.009 --> 00:21:18.990
No, I think it's key.

00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:26.420
And I think it's really the cream will rise to the top of the people that are willing to put in the work and be conscientious and be servants and be helpers.

00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.059
I think we're in the exact same spot.

00:21:28.099 --> 00:21:29.359
I think it's a great way to look at it.

00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:37.440
And one of the things I want to ask you about is, you have the ability to do a couple different things within the different companies that you're working within.

00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:47.099
Talk a little bit about your team at Savior Publishing and some of the ways that you're able to, you know, split your time and manage things because you're successfully running teams.

00:21:47.099 --> 00:21:48.859
Cause a lot of our audience is doing the same thing.

00:21:48.859 --> 00:21:53.029
Either they're building their flipping team or their wholesale team or whatever, but it's all about running teams.

00:21:53.029 --> 00:21:57.549
And you've been able to execute that step away, take a CMO job at a big company.

00:21:57.549 --> 00:21:58.539
So maybe talk about that.

00:21:58.549 --> 00:21:59.589
That'd be huge for our audience.

00:21:59.654 --> 00:22:00.744
It's a miracle.

00:22:00.825 --> 00:22:03.855
You want to talk about something I would have never guessed in a million years.

00:22:03.875 --> 00:22:13.964
So it started out of building terrible teams where I was abdicating, which I think is just like handing stuff off without really even following through no documented anything.

00:22:14.154 --> 00:22:20.224
I'm just a hotshot real estate investor and I'm just shooting first and that kind of bullcrap, and I'm just, I'm all that.

00:22:20.325 --> 00:22:22.525
And then there's a lot of frustration that would happen.

00:22:22.615 --> 00:22:28.174
I had multiple acquisitions, people on our flipping team had multiple VAs that were helping with the marketing.

00:22:28.194 --> 00:22:29.585
This is normal stuff people have.

00:22:30.015 --> 00:22:30.954
it wasn't working good.

00:22:30.954 --> 00:22:32.065
You know, people weren't showing up.

00:22:32.075 --> 00:22:33.315
People weren't doing their work.

00:22:33.684 --> 00:22:33.894
Yeah.

00:22:33.894 --> 00:22:37.134
I don't think anybody was stealing, but it was just, it was a cluster.

00:22:37.234 --> 00:22:40.855
So then when I got the CMO job, I did it.

00:22:40.924 --> 00:22:42.055
I mean, look, I can't.

00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:47.869
Part of it was cause I knew this, that it would force me to level up in some of these areas.

00:22:47.869 --> 00:22:49.710
Cause it's easy to stay in your comfort zone.

00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:54.390
I could have just bought a few houses, a good houses a month and from seniors.

00:22:54.390 --> 00:22:55.160
And that's cool.

00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.680
But I wanted, I knew to run a big business.

00:22:58.190 --> 00:22:59.819
There's just some skills you got to have.

00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:03.799
And, building operational teams and operational excellence is everything.

00:23:04.089 --> 00:23:05.740
People aren't paying you for information.

00:23:05.740 --> 00:23:07.569
They're paying for you to execute on something.

00:23:07.970 --> 00:23:11.069
I knew that I would learn that because these folks already have those skills.

00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:13.170
So I got this book called work the system.

00:23:13.430 --> 00:23:17.150
I got a couple of books before it, but work the system, Sam Carpenter.

00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:22.710
I read it and he was like, speak in my exact life, which was I'm running these businesses.

00:23:23.009 --> 00:23:24.150
I don't have a business.

00:23:24.150 --> 00:23:25.059
I got a job.

00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:25.960
I'm worn out.

00:23:26.069 --> 00:23:27.529
I'm just one of those worn out entrepreneurs.

00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.589
Making good money, but it's not sustainable.

00:23:30.859 --> 00:23:32.279
And I have no time freedom.

00:23:32.609 --> 00:23:37.910
Some of the folks in my masterminds, Trevor from, on carrot, changes the name used to be investor carrot.

00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:38.710
He's so smart.

00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:46.619
Like people like that were pouring into us and they had been to that next level where they have teams and like an actual company.

00:23:46.910 --> 00:23:48.119
And I was like, I want to get there.

00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:53.700
And so, from listening to him, From getting work, the system, I went through the program, work the system.

00:23:53.700 --> 00:24:00.180
I really, if people haven't read that book, you it's lights out and they have a cohort, a group coaching program.

00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:02.230
I went through it and it was great.

00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:09.329
It was hard, but it was like 12 weeks and they taught us like how to actually set, this is the guiding principles right over here.

00:24:09.529 --> 00:24:13.680
Here's the strategic objective and like why these are actually important.

00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:15.069
I didn't understand any of this stuff.

00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:16.589
I understood how to make money.

00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:18.140
I understood how to talk.

00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:23.400
I understood marketing, but like how to actually like create and form a business.

00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:25.710
I've been through the EOS stuff a little bit.

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:28.160
My friend Gary Harper, I was actually his first client.

00:24:28.349 --> 00:24:28.599
Oh, no.

00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:29.839
And the idea for the company.

00:24:29.900 --> 00:24:30.839
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:31.349
Just random.

00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:35.369
So like I had been hanging with some of these ops people, but it's totally different.

00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:36.210
And when you're.

00:24:36.269 --> 00:24:37.740
Have it fully integrated.

00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:40.230
And so anyways, we went, I went through the whole thing.

00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:41.789
I installed it at both companies.

00:24:42.210 --> 00:24:46.109
The real estate company that I'm CMO for, and then for savior publishing house.

00:24:46.150 --> 00:24:50.559
And we documented all of our processes and we, but it's more than that.

00:24:50.859 --> 00:24:54.440
It's not, you can't just write everything down, put it in a binder.

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.400
If you do that, nothing's going to happen.

00:24:56.470 --> 00:25:00.430
It's actually training with the work, looking at the work, using the work.

00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:09.940
It's just a lot of hard work and a lot of setup, and I'm so glad I did it because without it, I just don't think that I could have, really created a successful team.

00:25:10.269 --> 00:25:15.910
And I have three people at the publishing business and three people on our marketing team here.

00:25:16.130 --> 00:25:17.019
We're adding another one.

00:25:17.250 --> 00:25:22.930
So it's not like I have like 500 people, but look to be an entrepreneur and get yourself out of it.

00:25:23.259 --> 00:25:28.680
You got to have a certain amount of consistent scale, you know, that's scalable, not from.

00:25:28.930 --> 00:25:32.000
Some magic list that a marketer sold you that doesn't pan out.

00:25:32.019 --> 00:25:35.589
I'm talking about like a five, 10 year business.

00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:42.539
You got to have the skills, got to know how to really operate, know how to hire correctly, just know stuff.

00:25:42.569 --> 00:25:45.779
And so when I was 33, when I was 23, I didn't know anything.

00:25:45.779 --> 00:25:47.960
I'm so glad they didn't have social media back then.

00:25:48.349 --> 00:25:50.059
I would never be able to run for office.

00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:52.140
When I was 33, I had learned some stuff.

00:25:52.170 --> 00:25:52.849
Now I'm 43.

00:25:53.914 --> 00:25:54.894
You just go up.

00:25:54.994 --> 00:26:03.565
What's cool about this, the guy who co wrote the Ford of work, the system, Josh Fonger, he's my coach and he's teaches me all the op stuff.

00:26:03.625 --> 00:26:06.015
And it's all about execution.

00:26:06.095 --> 00:26:11.365
And if you cannot be a good operator and efficient operator, a lot of these visionaries.

00:26:11.694 --> 00:26:14.035
In the masterminds, they're out to lunch, man.

00:26:14.055 --> 00:26:20.315
And they're just one market reset away from going totally out of business because they don't really know how to run a team.

00:26:20.615 --> 00:26:24.375
They have a magic special forces, ninja, like integrator.

00:26:24.795 --> 00:26:26.154
And if that person disappears.

00:26:26.714 --> 00:26:27.674
Everything disappears.

00:26:27.674 --> 00:26:29.394
If my people disappear, I love them.

00:26:29.434 --> 00:26:33.835
I hope they don't, I pour into them, but if they do, the processes stay.

00:26:34.305 --> 00:26:36.924
And because, so that's how we lead.

00:26:36.934 --> 00:26:38.305
That's the source that I used.

00:26:38.335 --> 00:26:39.484
It took a long time.

00:26:39.704 --> 00:26:43.025
It's not, this is not like, I don't have a shortcut if somebody has it.

00:26:43.025 --> 00:26:43.325
Cool.

00:26:43.325 --> 00:26:45.194
But most of the shortcuts are garbage.

00:26:45.335 --> 00:26:48.894
You just have to put the time in and focus on like actually building.

00:26:49.805 --> 00:26:53.434
Like things that businesses have to have and businesses have to generate leads.

00:26:53.434 --> 00:26:54.625
They have to convert leads.

00:26:55.095 --> 00:26:58.255
They have a product or service offering that they execute on.

00:26:58.255 --> 00:27:00.954
And then there's the accounting, kind of finance piece.

00:27:00.964 --> 00:27:04.085
And that's kind of legal, you know, and that's kind of business.

00:27:04.085 --> 00:27:05.845
And so most people like us.

00:27:06.515 --> 00:27:06.865
I don't know.

00:27:06.865 --> 00:27:09.265
Were you probably pretty good at sales right out of the womb?

00:27:09.904 --> 00:27:10.555
I sure was.

00:27:10.565 --> 00:27:12.694
That's definitely when I got, and we'll talk about this later.

00:27:12.694 --> 00:27:13.964
You've gotten back into the corporate world.

00:27:13.974 --> 00:27:19.384
I started out in the corporate world and yeah, it was just all day sales, sales, sales, sales, but no, no ops, no running anything.

00:27:19.384 --> 00:27:21.035
You know, you're just a kick ass salesperson.

00:27:21.444 --> 00:27:24.674
So we're going to take a quick break and tell you about the next elevation Academy.

00:27:24.974 --> 00:27:29.244
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00:27:56.549 --> 00:27:56.809
Okay.

00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:57.990
Let's get back to the episode.

00:27:59.585 --> 00:27:59.865
Right.

00:27:59.875 --> 00:28:06.894
So it was like, okay, so like kick ass salesperson, like right out the gate, that's just the way you're born, you know, selling candy bars at school and stuff.

00:28:07.194 --> 00:28:11.065
I saw Ninja turtle cartoons that my neighbor made because the artists don't want no money.

00:28:11.414 --> 00:28:13.154
And so he was just doing it for fun.

00:28:13.164 --> 00:28:14.585
And I was over there selling them.

00:28:14.744 --> 00:28:16.394
I was a broke kid at a little private school.

00:28:16.884 --> 00:28:19.825
So then you learn the marketing game from doing the real estate stuff.

00:28:19.855 --> 00:28:23.765
And then, then you realize, okay, I can't scale up all this marketing and sales.

00:28:24.174 --> 00:28:27.585
If I can't have a good operational team and I have to do it all.

00:28:27.585 --> 00:28:31.375
If I don't know how to build a team, so leaders have to know how to build teams.

00:28:31.424 --> 00:28:40.914
And if you build teams with systems, if the people come and go, the system stay, and then you own a system that makes money.

00:28:41.289 --> 00:28:47.809
Not just a skill that makes money or not just, I happen to have hired some people that can help me make money.

00:28:48.130 --> 00:28:54.750
When you can own a system that produces money and you plug your team members into the system, that's actually a business.

00:28:54.750 --> 00:28:57.950
Most people don't have that, never will, because they don't understand that.

00:28:58.605 --> 00:28:58.924
Yeah.

00:28:58.924 --> 00:29:02.275
And when you're building those teams, I think everything you said is just so spot on.

00:29:02.275 --> 00:29:02.954
And so key.

00:29:03.154 --> 00:29:07.305
Is there a certain interview question or is there a certain trade or something that you're looking for?

00:29:07.335 --> 00:29:16.234
I know that every role is different, but when you're finding your a players, something that you're either asking or is Keenan on your, where you're going, Hey, that's the right person versus you interview.

00:29:16.234 --> 00:29:17.694
And you're like, that is the wrong person.

00:29:17.924 --> 00:29:19.444
Cause I think that's key in everybody's business.

00:29:19.875 --> 00:29:25.375
Yeah, step one is intelligence test everybody, because people's brains just move at different speeds.

00:29:25.375 --> 00:29:26.565
And that's just sort of a fact.

00:29:26.934 --> 00:29:40.275
We give everybody a test to make sure that they can handle the speed and pace of the job, because if you try to put somebody in a role where their processor goes, you know, At this speed, and then somebody else's and the job needs this, you're hurting them.

00:29:40.275 --> 00:29:41.045
You're not helping them.

00:29:41.335 --> 00:29:45.295
So we make sure that their aptitudes are a match.

00:29:45.585 --> 00:29:52.055
And then I read this book called hiring for attitude and what it said in there is that, attitudes don't really change.

00:29:52.055 --> 00:29:54.355
And if somebody has a good 1, and they're coachable.

00:29:54.714 --> 00:29:58.404
Then, and they're, decent, smart, then they can, they can be a contributor.

00:29:58.755 --> 00:30:02.174
But if, they have a crappy attitude, it doesn't matter how smart they are.

00:30:02.184 --> 00:30:04.025
It doesn't matter how many skills they have.

00:30:04.404 --> 00:30:07.055
You can't build a team because all the people leave.

00:30:07.345 --> 00:30:09.204
So that book was very instrumental.

00:30:09.255 --> 00:30:12.865
We just pretty much focus on, that, what Warren Buffett said is true.

00:30:12.954 --> 00:30:21.045
He says three things when you hire, you gotta have intelligence, you have to have energy and you have to have, integrity that's just sort of an offshoot of that.

00:30:21.045 --> 00:30:25.744
But yeah, we go, they go through a very specific process and, it's been working really good.

00:30:25.894 --> 00:30:30.285
We hired like four people this year and I don't think we got rid of anybody.

00:30:30.285 --> 00:30:31.855
One person's kind of on the watch list.

00:30:32.134 --> 00:30:35.285
I learned how, like you have to do performance reviews with people.

00:30:35.285 --> 00:30:36.345
I didn't understand any of this.

00:30:36.575 --> 00:30:37.845
We do it every 90 days.

00:30:37.904 --> 00:30:40.964
I know some people don't, but I found it to be really helpful.

00:30:40.964 --> 00:30:41.515
Like just.

00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.509
Have a formal process of letting people know what their expectations are.

00:30:45.509 --> 00:30:50.519
Cause sometimes when people aren't doing what you want them to do, it's not because they're lazy or they suck.

00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:55.890
It's just because they really aren't clear on what is expected.

00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:57.079
They just easily.

00:30:57.529 --> 00:31:08.849
Get, lose focus and a lot of times the visionaries of the companies are the reason for that because they're spending, they're trying to be an operator and they're confusing their team with all their ideas and they don't have a good filter.

00:31:09.210 --> 00:31:14.269
And so they're going to all their team members and sharing all these ideas and it gets the team members off track.

00:31:14.269 --> 00:31:22.240
So just picking up those little things along the way, hanging out with people who are non examples, and then hanging out with people who are great examples and.

00:31:22.779 --> 00:31:24.019
That's really all you can do.

00:31:24.369 --> 00:31:24.569
Yeah.

00:31:24.569 --> 00:31:25.190
I think that's smart.

00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:25.700
We're the same way.

00:31:25.700 --> 00:31:42.420
That is one of the nice things that we pulled from the traction and EOS system is those quarterly 90 day rocks, because you got to measure, I think it is, it's, I think it's almost an injustice to do a performance review a year later and they're like, well, what the heck you never, you've never told me that, but if you really are drilling into somebody, yeah.

00:31:42.609 --> 00:31:45.589
And every 90 days of what are the expectations?

00:31:45.589 --> 00:31:47.099
Where can I as a leader get better?

00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:48.779
Where can you as a staff member get better?

00:31:48.819 --> 00:31:49.660
It's the only way to go.

00:31:49.660 --> 00:31:51.839
I think people have to do that no matter how big they are.

00:31:52.109 --> 00:31:52.710
Tomorrow.

00:31:52.730 --> 00:32:11.240
My business systems manager, which is the work, the system term for the person who's like the ops manager, it's the EOS word for the integrator, but it's a person whose job is to manage the dashboard of processes and systems, which essentially people and, automations and stuff do the work to produce the results that has a market fit.

00:32:11.829 --> 00:32:17.400
And tomorrow we're testing something out where she's actually going to do a performance review on me.

00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:25.779
Never done that before, because when I'm working, I do spend some time, of course, working in the business, doing marketing work, because I've developed that expertise.

00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:29.890
So I need to know, I need to be evaluated on that work product.

00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:49.619
And so I'm actually a little nervous about it because I haven't had one of those in a long time, but there is some formal parts of like bigger companies that are a total waste of time and make them inefficient and entrepreneurs totally laugh at them and they probably should, but there's some parts that actually are helpful to build some like actual stability and stuff.

00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:54.880
So if I could have done it over, I wouldn't have changed anything, but if I had, Gone.

00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:57.150
I think really big companies have so much waste.

00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:00.579
I don't even know if that would have been a good place to learn this company that I'm at.

00:33:00.589 --> 00:33:01.579
It's a smaller company.

00:33:01.579 --> 00:33:06.180
We only have like 30 people, but it's a lot bigger than most entrepreneur.

00:33:06.230 --> 00:33:12.430
You know, so like that 30, that's kind of that next level, you know, and you have to have a certain amount of consistent business to do that.

00:33:12.470 --> 00:33:21.069
So, think that if you're, if you go and work in one of those mid sized smaller companies, that's run well, you can learn a lot for, stuff that you can do on your own.

00:33:21.069 --> 00:33:22.240
So that's been my experience.

00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:23.779
And I think that's great advice.

00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:25.019
And some, I'd love to touch on that.

00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:50.210
We were actually talking about a little bit before we got going on this interview is I think there's a misconception, especially with social media and content out there that, whether you're straight out of college or you're young and you immediately start wholesaling and you're making 10 to 50 grand a wholesale, and then you get a Lambo and then you meet at, like in our market, John Elway steakhouse or whatever, like become this just influencer person.

00:33:50.710 --> 00:34:00.960
But the reality is, is that whether it's your career or my career is a lot of times it's great to start in the corporate world and understand how really big successful corporations run.

00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:06.059
I mean, I got lucky where I started in the NFL working for the Broncos, and then I did media with CBS.

00:34:06.650 --> 00:34:21.230
And then you've kind of come full circle in the back end of starting A really successful business, multiple businesses, and then getting kind of back in the corporate world, maybe talk a little bit about for audience of some of the benefits that you get at bookending your career or being open to opportunities.

00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:23.239
Cause everybody just thinks, Oh yeah, I'm 24.

00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:25.429
I'm going to crush it and make 5 million bucks.

00:34:25.429 --> 00:34:29.239
Like that's not the way the world works in my opinion, or at least to my knowledge.

00:34:29.269 --> 00:34:30.309
Yeah, it's pretty rare.

00:34:30.340 --> 00:34:31.539
A lot of people are.

00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.000
I don't tell people what to do.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:34.679
I just tell people what I do.

00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:41.219
A lot of people are selling their, you know, as Naval Ravikant says they're like selling their winning lottery numbers.

00:34:41.659 --> 00:34:45.309
So some people, they kind of right place, right time.

00:34:45.329 --> 00:34:46.420
That's not duplicatable.

00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:47.809
I don't know what works for other people.

00:34:47.809 --> 00:34:55.440
I just know that, You're never going to have an income goal for me, and it's a pretty big number and, you just, you can't make that work.

00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.699
And for somebody else, it's just not possible.

00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:02.539
But there's a lot of people who work places that, I mean, you can work places.

00:35:02.539 --> 00:35:06.099
And if you're valuable, you can make a lot of money, a lot of money.

00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:14.250
And so sometimes I think when people have a job, they're like in entrepreneurial circles, they're like, Oh, that's terrible.

00:35:14.250 --> 00:35:22.469
Being an entrepreneur, you have more control over your time, but not if you're forced to work all the time, because you don't really have that good of a business.

00:35:23.250 --> 00:35:25.789
You're just self employed and there's nothing wrong with self employed.

00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:30.440
But when I went through the work, the system program, I really kind of learned the differences of those.

00:35:30.449 --> 00:35:34.284
And I was like, you know, I, when I had the house flipping, I didn't have a business.

00:35:34.315 --> 00:35:35.614
I was self employed.

00:35:36.644 --> 00:35:45.804
And being self employed actually, isn't that great because you take all the risk of an entrepreneur, and you don't have nearly as much stability or upside.

00:35:45.804 --> 00:35:51.905
So I think start out self employed is cool, but yeah, there is stuff you can learn from other companies.

00:35:51.934 --> 00:35:52.835
Now we'll say this.

00:35:53.255 --> 00:36:00.775
One of the bad parts of working for a company is, if your income goal is not crazy high, you can get pretty comfortable staying there.

00:36:00.824 --> 00:36:05.304
And then it kind of jeopardizes you being able to do something else cause you get comfortable.

00:36:05.764 --> 00:36:14.045
I think, yeah, and it seemed to live says like the two most dangerous substances on earth are like heroin and a weekly paycheck or bi weekly paycheck.

00:36:14.744 --> 00:36:16.945
And so, so you gotta be careful with that.

00:36:16.985 --> 00:36:20.675
You gotta make sure that you work out a deal to where you still have control over your time.

00:36:20.954 --> 00:36:29.505
I have a friend who's like my best friend and he's a some kind of a VP person at this big data company and he gets to work remote.

00:36:29.635 --> 00:36:34.704
He makes good money and everything, but he doesn't have as much time as I do.

00:36:34.724 --> 00:36:38.454
And if you don't have any of your own time, you don't have control over your own time.

00:36:38.974 --> 00:36:41.985
You're kind of stuck and you can't go do something on your own.

00:36:42.005 --> 00:36:50.224
So it's different for everybody, but I just knew that for me being a solo manure and having a small team, I could only get so far.

00:36:50.224 --> 00:37:00.375
So I just decided to level up and learn from people who've already done it and, make sure I still built in enough time for me so that I could build my own stuff.

00:37:00.485 --> 00:37:08.425
And then eventually within, I can't predict the future, but nobody can, if they can probably run away, but most likely in.

00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:18.590
Two or three years, I'll just only, I'll still have the publishing business going because I like, you know, as long as it's relevant and it's helpful to people, but somebody else will run it.

00:37:18.590 --> 00:37:22.570
I might sell it to somebody else who really like one of my students who really just wants to take it.

00:37:22.949 --> 00:37:30.630
And I just want to focus 100 percent on senior housing, because it's, you just get good at what you focus on one myth.

00:37:30.630 --> 00:37:34.829
I wanted to spell out that you mentioned for anybody on here has not figured this out.

00:37:35.460 --> 00:37:37.599
This is a big myth going on, which is.

00:37:38.150 --> 00:37:42.769
Tracking metrics and accountability and business is everything.

00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:52.500
And what I've learned hanging out with these hedge fund people, I mean, I get to hang out with really cool people coming here and they're players and they know how to run businesses, big businesses.

00:37:52.550 --> 00:37:58.409
what got you to wherever you are, isn't necessarily what it's going to take to get you to the next place.

00:37:58.440 --> 00:37:59.420
Like that's just a fact.

00:37:59.989 --> 00:38:05.800
And what I've noticed is, is that better the business people I've met, the more they know the numbers of their business.

00:38:06.230 --> 00:38:10.150
And the faster they get the numbers and the more action they have around them.

00:38:10.429 --> 00:38:11.860
I had somebody tell me.

00:38:12.219 --> 00:38:18.590
Oh, yeah, I don't track a lot of employee metrics because that's micromanaging.

00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:20.010
No, that's not true.

00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:20.860
That's stupid.

00:38:20.929 --> 00:38:21.739
You track stuff.

00:38:21.739 --> 00:38:23.389
That's important because it's important.

00:38:23.900 --> 00:38:31.239
I also think for me getting to hang out with business owners and other industries has been super helpful.

00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:35.690
I don't want to dis on real estate investing because I love it, but real estate investors.

00:38:36.005 --> 00:38:42.625
Are the benefactors of giant profit margins, and they have extremely inefficient businesses blanket statement.

00:38:42.775 --> 00:38:44.375
Yeah, not right.

00:38:44.704 --> 00:38:45.485
That's the way I was.

00:38:45.864 --> 00:38:52.355
And so, but if you go to these industries where it's been pretty competitive and tight for a long time, they don't have the big margins.

00:38:52.764 --> 00:38:56.284
They have to be operationally excellent in order to survive.

00:38:56.655 --> 00:39:00.184
And so the way the progression has gone in real estate investing is a little bit like this.

00:39:00.664 --> 00:39:02.545
People came in at the right time.

00:39:03.045 --> 00:39:09.335
You know, a lot of times when, when we get lucky, which by the way, being born in America at this time, luck.

00:39:09.454 --> 00:39:11.375
If you think about most of your.

00:39:11.764 --> 00:39:13.054
Big events in your life.

00:39:13.204 --> 00:39:14.255
They're probably luck.

00:39:14.514 --> 00:39:16.125
Like I met my wife, it was luck.

00:39:16.135 --> 00:39:17.304
It wasn't a strategic plan.

00:39:17.614 --> 00:39:19.755
I got involved in real estate investing in 2015.

00:39:19.764 --> 00:39:20.434
That was luck.

00:39:20.925 --> 00:39:21.875
And that's funny.

00:39:21.875 --> 00:39:24.224
Like when things go good, we're like, Oh, it's us.

00:39:24.494 --> 00:39:28.355
But then when things don't go good, they're like, Oh, it's bad luck.

00:39:28.445 --> 00:39:31.994
And it's like, no, dude, it's usually the other way around when stuff goes bad.

00:39:31.994 --> 00:39:34.695
It's because we messed up and we didn't know something.

00:39:34.744 --> 00:39:38.630
when things go good, It's a lot of times it's luck and people don't like that.

00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:43.440
But if you read this book fooled by randomness by Nassim Taleb, it pretty much spells it out.

00:39:43.449 --> 00:39:54.940
It's a pretty cool book, so I think it's really important to just know where you're at and, and understand that what got you to where you are now may not get you to, where you're going.

00:39:54.989 --> 00:39:56.619
There's a lot of timing in the market.

00:39:56.659 --> 00:40:00.349
And when that timing starts to go away, that's why people switch.

00:40:00.349 --> 00:40:03.460
Like everybody came in, in the boom, they thought they were a genius.

00:40:03.699 --> 00:40:09.019
Then all of a sudden they were like, Oh, we gotta have a real estate license too, to monetize these leads.

00:40:09.389 --> 00:40:10.250
Well, yeah, no kidding.

00:40:10.250 --> 00:40:15.900
So I would say business acumen wise, a lot of real estate investors are way behind.

00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.849
And so what I've gotten a lot of gains from is hanging out with.

00:40:20.184 --> 00:40:34.014
Dentists hanging out with lawyers who own law firms and seeing how they run their businesses because they have to run them a lot tighter when insurance is only paying you 168 bucks to do a filling, not all law firms charge 500 bucks.

00:40:34.425 --> 00:40:35.784
And so I've learned a lot.

00:40:35.824 --> 00:40:47.525
So I would just say, if people are serious about taking their real estate investing business to the next level, what I've been doing is hanging out with, Different industries and they're not good at real estate, but they're good at business.

00:40:47.525 --> 00:40:48.005
Business.

00:40:48.094 --> 00:40:48.364
Yeah.

00:40:48.425 --> 00:40:50.045
And getting good at that.

00:40:50.045 --> 00:40:51.755
All the components of it.

00:40:52.045 --> 00:40:55.014
I think you have to build the foundation before you can really go up.

00:40:55.014 --> 00:40:58.795
It's not just magic marketing or magic scaling or magic bullets.

00:40:59.125 --> 00:41:01.344
That's just somebody who's making money off of you.

00:41:01.985 --> 00:41:02.275
Yeah.

00:41:02.275 --> 00:41:11.835
And I want to double click on what you just said in that you talked a little bit about being part of masterminds and then it sounds like being part of more just less formal business relationships.

00:41:11.835 --> 00:41:16.114
You want to maybe just talk about those two and maybe let's start on first some of the masterminds that you're doing.

00:41:16.114 --> 00:41:25.735
So I think a lot of times people look to that in real estate and I think that's really important, but I want you to maybe bookend it with like what you just described of having just these great general business relationships.

00:41:25.755 --> 00:41:26.864
Cause yeah, you can learn.

00:41:27.309 --> 00:41:34.780
How to run your business better by the guy across the street, running a phenomenal auto body shop or oil change company to you, you're right.

00:41:34.849 --> 00:41:37.590
Talking about margins and kind of commoditized products.

00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:41.070
So maybe you talk about, mastermind stuff first, and then just general business stuff.

00:41:41.070 --> 00:41:42.739
Second, I think people need to listen to this.

00:41:43.349 --> 00:41:47.980
Well, when I started out, I got into masterminds kind of early and that actually worked out pretty good.

00:41:48.030 --> 00:41:51.659
Jim Ingersoll, who's a investor in, Virginia started it.

00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.900
He's got a great community and he did it for a little while.

00:41:54.900 --> 00:41:55.360
And then.

00:41:55.704 --> 00:41:56.735
It kind of, he didn't want it.

00:41:56.744 --> 00:41:59.184
He just wanted to focus on flipping houses and doing real estate.

00:41:59.184 --> 00:42:01.255
It's really hard to focus on a lot of things at once.

00:42:01.844 --> 00:42:06.835
Probably the fewer things that you can do to make, you know, the income that you want, probably the better.

00:42:07.215 --> 00:42:10.224
I started out in his mastermind when I was on deal, like number two.

00:42:10.445 --> 00:42:11.355
Just right out the gate.

00:42:11.505 --> 00:42:11.715
Okay.

00:42:11.755 --> 00:42:13.844
And that's not usual, but just sort of happened that way.

00:42:13.844 --> 00:42:16.704
And then I was in a real estate mastermind for a while.

00:42:17.034 --> 00:42:18.164
That was in Chicago.

00:42:18.164 --> 00:42:25.675
And then I switched to one in Dallas with my cam bright and we started hanging out and, we started a business together, you know, like just things happen.

00:42:26.054 --> 00:42:29.664
And now I'm in a Matt Andrews family mastermind, which is for marketers.

00:42:29.675 --> 00:42:34.284
It's out of Tampa and it's just all, investing marketers.

00:42:34.545 --> 00:42:38.175
There's a lot of people in there, like a couple hundred or something, but very helpful.

00:42:38.554 --> 00:42:46.704
I've noticed that they've become, I don't know if less helpful is the right word, but as I've gotten further in my career, it can be kind of distracting too.

00:42:46.775 --> 00:42:49.445
So you have to be careful of the shiny object syndrome.

00:42:49.755 --> 00:42:52.045
When I was first new, I was just taking it all in.

00:42:52.094 --> 00:42:55.855
But now, I know what I want and what I need to get.

00:42:55.855 --> 00:43:03.304
Sometimes these masterminds, it's just the same information being recycled over and over again by each other.

00:43:03.635 --> 00:43:12.135
So I just like groups having those, other connections of other industries, because a lot of times what works in another industry works over here too.

00:43:12.135 --> 00:43:14.155
So I've gotten a ton of value from masterminds.

00:43:14.155 --> 00:43:17.105
It would not be where I'm at nearly as fast without them.

00:43:17.385 --> 00:43:19.985
I've been in five or six different ones over.

00:43:20.195 --> 00:43:22.125
I guess I've been doing this seven or eight years now.

00:43:22.485 --> 00:43:26.284
I've gotten good value from the real estate investing ones, the marketing ones.

00:43:26.505 --> 00:43:28.735
But I've gotten good value from being in a program.

00:43:28.744 --> 00:43:32.934
So I'm always in something I'm always spending, are really investing.

00:43:32.945 --> 00:43:34.264
Cause when you spend, it goes away.

00:43:34.264 --> 00:43:35.505
When you invest, it comes back.

00:43:35.505 --> 00:43:41.085
So I'm always, Investing, you know, 5 or 6 hours a week in a group.

00:43:41.085 --> 00:43:45.065
And right now I'm in the Rolla Platinum group for residential assisted living.

00:43:45.065 --> 00:43:55.880
I just started doing that, even though I've been hanging with them since the beginning, for about 5 years, I wanted to just go in as a student and just have fresh eyes on it because I've helped a lot of people.

00:43:56.840 --> 00:44:02.139
I mean, probably 50 or 60 of their people fill their residential assisted living home.

00:44:02.139 --> 00:44:08.260
But just because I know how to fill the home with a book, with the marketing, doesn't mean that I know how to take care of the seniors.

00:44:08.260 --> 00:44:12.829
Doesn't mean that I know how to hire the right, more on the medical side people.

00:44:12.829 --> 00:44:16.079
I know how to do the real estate part, but there's still new stuff.

00:44:16.380 --> 00:44:21.480
A 16 bed house that's, with a private bathroom for each one, that's a little different.

00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.500
I've never done new construction, so there's still stuff to learn.

00:44:25.244 --> 00:44:26.775
Yeah, I think masterminds are good.

00:44:26.775 --> 00:44:28.574
I think plugging into programs are good.

00:44:28.574 --> 00:44:34.074
And if you do the work and you follow up on the stuff, you'll get a great return.

00:44:34.074 --> 00:44:35.014
That's been my experience.

00:44:35.235 --> 00:44:36.175
No, I think that's great.

00:44:36.445 --> 00:44:45.974
Well, and I want to be sensitive to your time, but I do have, as we kind of wrap up here, I've got one more thing I want to really dive a little deeper on, which is that residential assisted living Investment strategy that you're doing.

00:44:45.974 --> 00:44:56.954
I think folks on our podcast definitely lean a little into the day to day operations of flipping wholesaling, running a brokerage, but we really abdicate, for people to have that investment income.

00:44:56.985 --> 00:45:02.184
I know you and I joke that the term passive income is BS, but investment income, secondary income.

00:45:02.184 --> 00:45:02.474
So you're right.

00:45:02.474 --> 00:45:05.625
You're not just totally freaking out about market dynamics.

00:45:05.914 --> 00:45:26.414
Can you talk a little bit about maybe from a high level, what you're doing in that space, and then I don't know if you've obviously executed yet, but what some of the numbers are, because I think it's helpful when people talk about, Oh, I'm doing this and making this in multifamily, or I'm doing that in self storage, what's like some of the big picture business stuff you're looking at, and then maybe just some general numbers of what you are anticipating in this sector of investing.

00:45:26.744 --> 00:45:27.204
Yeah, sure.

00:45:27.204 --> 00:45:27.494
Absolutely.

00:45:27.494 --> 00:45:28.625
Yeah, it's very important.

00:45:28.724 --> 00:45:32.554
So with the residential assisted living, my goal is to open my first one next year.

00:45:32.644 --> 00:45:34.414
I plan on buying one that's already existing.

00:45:34.735 --> 00:45:43.394
Hopefully with somebody in place that just, you know, they're burnt out, they don't want to do it anymore and then take over and improve the operations, the sales and marketing, and then make sure that I want to do it.

00:45:43.445 --> 00:45:46.295
I think sometimes it's cool to jump in, but.

00:45:46.614 --> 00:45:50.324
One of my coaches said, before you enter, you always want to plan your exit.

00:45:50.764 --> 00:45:54.114
And so I want to, cause a lot of times you'll get information from people.

00:45:54.125 --> 00:45:55.195
They just tell you the good stuff.

00:45:55.215 --> 00:45:56.175
They don't tell you the bad stuff.

00:45:56.704 --> 00:45:58.675
You don't everybody, you don't need the good list.

00:45:58.675 --> 00:45:59.465
You need the bad list.

00:45:59.474 --> 00:46:01.014
So you don't need the good list from me.

00:46:01.025 --> 00:46:01.755
What's the good list?

00:46:01.755 --> 00:46:02.505
Well, we already know it.

00:46:02.505 --> 00:46:10.114
I mean, it's, this giant group of people are going to need help and their kids are totally not prepared to take care of them on their own.

00:46:10.144 --> 00:46:11.985
And so there's going to be a huge need.

00:46:11.985 --> 00:46:19.434
It's a very difficult business, and to do, and it's a very operational, heavy business to do successfully.

00:46:19.775 --> 00:46:21.159
So therefore you can't.

00:46:22.010 --> 00:46:26.440
Just a convention can't come to town and teach a hundred people how to do it like they can wholesaling.

00:46:26.769 --> 00:46:28.219
It's just not that kind of business.

00:46:28.340 --> 00:46:40.079
So they're not going to be able, once everybody figures it out, which is probably going to be at the peak, which is when most people figure stuff out, they won't be able to spin them up fast enough because there's too many parts.

00:46:40.769 --> 00:46:41.809
That's what I'm going to do.

00:46:41.860 --> 00:46:42.889
There's a big tailwind.

00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:44.579
There's a lot of people that need help.

00:46:45.219 --> 00:46:51.329
And there's a lot of ways to make money and the more money you make, the easier it is to make money.

00:46:51.340 --> 00:46:59.010
Cause you just know how to make money, making money as a skill and so you might as well do something that actually has some meaning behind it too.

00:46:59.030 --> 00:47:02.789
I mean, I wrote a book on senior housing, so it's just, this is not a hard thing.

00:47:03.030 --> 00:47:05.599
As far as the numbers go, you hear a lot of different ones.

00:47:06.630 --> 00:47:10.079
If I think about it, you should be able to get, it depends on where you are.

00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:10.469
Right.

00:47:10.510 --> 00:47:16.360
Price of real estate's up, but if you have a smaller home, you should be able to net like 10, 000 a month.

00:47:16.489 --> 00:47:24.389
If you have six to 10 people, those are the numbers that I'm seeing that I've seen from my students that I've, you know, helped them with their book systems that have these.

00:47:24.389 --> 00:47:34.079
I have students that have multiple homes and, they're netting somewhere between 10 to 30,000 to per home, depending on the size of it, depending on how the debt's structured.

00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.860
So yeah, you don't really need a lot of 'em.

00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:37.920
Yeah.

00:47:37.969 --> 00:47:44.335
My goal is to open seven of 'em and then just give one to each kid, you know, when I leave the planet.

00:47:44.364 --> 00:47:46.795
And so, but I might get into it and say.

00:47:47.295 --> 00:47:48.454
This is the coolest thing ever.

00:47:48.454 --> 00:47:54.195
I want to do 700, but I really just want to go to Germany and hang out there a lot.

00:47:54.195 --> 00:47:56.635
So I think if I just, you got to have a big enough place.

00:47:56.644 --> 00:48:03.454
My coach Josh says you have to scale up big enough, an order sometimes to.

00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:05.039
Get your time back.

00:48:05.099 --> 00:48:13.750
You actually have to get bigger because otherwise you don't have enough income to coming in to pay the quality of people that you need to run your stuff.

00:48:14.059 --> 00:48:25.710
So by, seven houses, I can have really high quality, amazing people that follow the systems and are part of our team and are compensated well for operational efficiency.

00:48:25.710 --> 00:48:31.250
And then I can just go to Germany for a month and go to this place for a month and I'll still work and make money and.

00:48:32.224 --> 00:48:33.914
But you know, there's more life than just that.

00:48:34.045 --> 00:48:35.474
Yeah, no, that's well said.

00:48:35.795 --> 00:48:38.715
Well, Max, man, it has been awesome having you on the podcast.

00:48:38.755 --> 00:48:42.235
We've loved being a part of your community at savior publishing.

00:48:42.304 --> 00:48:46.914
I feel like we're only just still scratching the surface on executing all the marketing that you guys have.

00:48:46.914 --> 00:48:53.074
So we're still learning and growing, but thank you so much for being on, uh, being a great guest on raising the flipping bar and we'll catch you on the flip side.

00:48:53.715 --> 00:48:54.105
Sounds good.

00:48:54.105 --> 00:48:54.434
Thank you.

00:48:54.434 --> 00:48:57.465
Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of raising the flipping bar.

00:48:57.844 --> 00:49:11.155
If you found value in our insights and stories, let's keep the conversation going, connect with me on social media, and be sure to share this episode with friends or colleagues who might benefit your feedback and reviews, help us grow and reach more listeners like you.

00:49:11.534 --> 00:49:14.684
So please, if you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review.

00:49:15.514 --> 00:49:18.445
Thanks again to the elevation Academy for sponsoring today's show.

00:49:19.045 --> 00:49:22.355
If you're interested in learning more, click the link in the show notes below.

00:49:22.864 --> 00:49:24.304
And remember every property.

00:49:24.364 --> 00:49:25.085
Tells a story.

00:49:25.434 --> 00:49:26.724
Every deal brings a lesson.

00:49:27.295 --> 00:49:30.085
Keep reaching for those goals and we'll catch you on the flip side.

00:49:32.849 --> 00:49:33.429
Hey everybody.

00:49:33.449 --> 00:49:36.650
Thank you so much for listening and watching raising a flipping bar.

00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:42.300
Just a basic overall disclaimer is that a, this is not legal advice.

00:49:42.500 --> 00:49:43.909
B, this is not tax advice.

00:49:43.909 --> 00:49:45.650
See, this is not financial advice.

00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:49.699
I hope you get the gist, but I'm obviously not a lawyer, not a CPA.

00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:54.380
Hell I'm not even a real estate agent actually, but in general, we hope you get a ton of value out of this, but there is a bit of a disclaimer.

00:49:54.380 --> 00:49:57.940
Please consult a professional if you have any questions whatsoever.

00:49:57.989 --> 00:49:58.639
Thanks for tuning in.